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EP 25 - Navigating New Norms: Workplace Fashion Post-Pandemic Video and Podcast Transcript

[Disclaimer: This transcription was written by AI using a tool called Descript, and has not been edited for content.]

Dave Dougherty: All right, and welcome to the latest episode of Enterprise in Minds. Dave, Ruthi, and Alex, whole crew are here. Alex, you're bringing the topic, so I'll kick it off to you.

Alex Pokorny: It's probably an unusual topic for me to present or at least start, but hopefully one both of you will take off and do well with.

Post-COVID Environment and Changing Clothing Styles

Alex Pokorny: But the topic was actually is just kind of a post COVID environment started.

There was just kind of an odd conversation that we were just having as we're walking around basically different corporate campus of understanding how have things changed. And one of the main things that we've noticed was basically how had clothing styles changed and expectations change. There's some upcoming actually in person stuff that I'll be doing with some teams who are flying in and they've been asking like, okay, what what's work wear considered today?

And that was a really good question because it was. Well, and it was guys asking me, I'm sure there was other conversations going on as well, but it was trying to understand how have things changed? How have things changed for you? Do you have certain habits that you've kind of picked up and used to kind of make this remote world work easier for you?

Have you changed your closet? Have you donated a ton of stuff? What have you done? So I'll kick it over to either one of you who can take it from there.

Personal Experiences and Changes in Habits

Dave Dougherty: Ruthi, why don't you go first?

Alex Pokorny: Volunteered away.

Ruthi Corcoran: I couldn't volunteer. That's fine. I'm back. All right. Lots of thoughts on this one because it is just, it's been so nice over the last three years or so of private, primarily working at home to not have to think or worry about that aspect of day to day.

There's the entire hassle of actually getting into the office, which, if you have children or other obligations outside of work becomes a much more difficult deal. And it's. Been a very nice 3 years of not doing that. This what to where to work thing is an added layer. And 1 of the things that I've noticed is that particularly at within the work environment I've been in and maybe this is likely true of.

of other environments too.

Workplace Culture and Dress Code

Ruthi Corcoran: You get a sense of what the culture is.

Alex Pokorny: Now we enter into the other piece of remote work, tech issues.

Dave Dougherty: Yeah, so Ruthi's got some some technical issues, so I'll just do my side of things. I have thought more about This despite the way I look and it's been interesting. So I have gone through my closet. Part of it is just going through different ages and stages and realizing, okay.

You know, being, being the dad now, there's lower stakes for how you should look. But I don't want that as an excuse. So I have been looking through my closet and getting it through. I've, I've had a number of conversations with some guy friends of mine about modular outfits and how they're trying to reduce their closets to that, where they only have like, I don't know, three black shirts and.

Two blue ones, and then they basically differentiate by the code or the jacket or whatever else they put on top. I think that's an interesting idea, but the big thing for me really is who am I talking to right? In my current position being in a global role, you know, there's very much that different expectation culturally globally.

So I'm, I'm playing more to that. Then I would previously but then for the in person thing, I did find myself in a very, very delayed holiday party recently. And I decided that I was going to just dress to the nines. A lot of these people hadn't seen me in four years. They, it was an official thing and why not?

I have all the stuff, some of it, I need to see if it still fits. Cause you know, I just, I'm not going to be wearing a suit when I'm at home. So yeah, I think again, it's always context dependent, but I've, I've taken it more as a, how do I want to be perceived? And do I want to be taken seriously? So if I know I'm only having a meeting with my team, that might be a little more relaxed than if I'm talking to somebody in Asia that I need them to take me seriously.

And I don't want that friction there of Well, just any, any reason to introduce, you know, any kind of cognitive resistance. So I will shut up because I feel like I'm stumbling, even though there was a point there.

Alex Pokorny: Well, let me, let me explain it a little bit. So you mentioned some outside the U. S. styles and kind of how you're kind of trying to fit to those as the either interviewer or interviewee for roles or by meeting new team members who are from different areas. Does that affect your kind of context of what you're going to wear on that particular meeting?

Dave Dougherty: Yes. I have, in this sense, I have some very old school ideas around presenting yourself. If you're going to show up to something like an interview, You're going to be on your best behavior and you're going to be wearing something nice because that, that is part of showcasing yourself, right? And it might not be what you wear every day to that job, but when it mattered, you showed up and you did what you needed to do.

Now does that mean you're in a suit and tie free interview? No, cause that might be culturally inappropriate for the. The role, right? If you're in a tech kind of interview, you're not going to be doing that. If you're in a creative kind of interview, that might not be there, but you could do a blazer and a t shirt, right?

Do the agency dress up. That'd be fine, but it at least shows that you are willing to be adaptable to the situation. So I'm happy to debate that if any of you want to jump in on that, or we can aggressively agree like we typically do.

Personal Style and Confidence

Ruthi Corcoran: I think that One of the things that has shifted dramatically in the last few years, and it'll tie back to your last comment, Dave, is I have placed way more emphasis on, I'm just going to dress as I am or like dress for myself. Right? I, I don't, I don't have to experience as many of perhaps what you've described in your global role of meeting with folks from around the world who have different cultural expectation around business.

So part of it is just the culture that I'm in. Okay. I had to come as I am so to speak and when it comes to those sort of key moments of like, okay Maybe we've got to step it up a notch To me. It's been more of a shift of okay. We're just going to elevate the thing that I already do, right? So i'm not going to drastically shift into You know a pantsuit.

That's that's not my style It makes me uncomfortable. I don't I don't come as I I don't feel as confident when I show up in a pantsuit because that's Just that's not my Not my go to But it'll be more of an elevated version of what I already do Maybe it's an a nicer pant or maybe it's okay We're going to toss on a nicer jacket or making sure the shoes are on point something like this Which then brings me into her related topic, which is boy That's a lot of clothes and that's exhausting and i'm also not particularly interested in that anymore

Dave Dougherty: I have a very large Part of my heart devoted to accessories.

I love accessories. If I had disposable cash, I would have probably like three pairs of glasses and six watches and why no reason just cause that's the impulse, but at least I'm aware of it so that I can avoid it. You know, Hugo boss insert ad here. And I'm thinking about. This through kind of that, that personal brand and reputational perception kind of thing, because that's usually where my head goes.

Impact of Technology on Professionalism

Dave Dougherty: And I found myself not just with the clothing, but also with all of the other things. As soon as the pandemic hit. I went and I got the 4k camera. I got a really nice microphone. Was that perfectly necessary for doing team meetings? No, but I wanted to make sure that no matter what. The sound quality was good and the video was good so that there was never a perception of poor quality in anything with what I was doing, it might be a subconscious thing.

But that was important to me. So I did that. And I'm wondering if that ends up. Either completely turning you guys off, or if you think similarly around those things or don't think about them at all.

Alex Pokorny: I think it's back down actually to what Ruthi was saying in regards to clothing and confidence. I mean.

My knowledge of microphones is about zero. So the difference between a good one and a bad one is if it's on or off, I guess if it works, that's about it. Like very, very limited knowledge in terms of audio quality and also what is good quality versus poor quality. Right. So I wouldn't necessarily know the difference between those two things.

With a piece of clothing, there are some things that I do know. And those standards I would apply and I would want to make sure I have a, you know, a shirt that fits those standards. Because again, even if it's not well seen, I mean, I commonly layer with sweaters or v neck sweaters over stuff. That's kind of my style has been for a long time.

But it still is a confidence breaker for me. Like wearing a dress shirt that's really unkempt and really wrinkly gets me like, even if it's a t shirt that's really wrinkled, I It's hard for me to feel as confident as I would, especially if there were social situations or, you know, like a work meeting, something like that.

So there. I don't know, for me, yeah, there's definitely a confidence piece there that applies to equipment, to clothing, to, you know, how you look.

Dave Dougherty: What's that Deon Sanders quote? Look good, feel good, play good, pay good. Sounds about right. Something like that. But I think the confidence thing is true. I mean, if you're going to do better.

You have to do that. And actually I've been thinking about this in terms of the, the age of AI and all of those headlines that you're seeing all over the place. And, you know, we've, we've discussed this previously as well, but it's the, how do you stand out if If the bottom half can now get to where, you know, what was typically considered average because of the capabilities of AI for, for writing or whatever else the, for me, the little things count more now, the, the harder things count more now.

So being on video, being on a podcast, having the nicer equipment so that. You know, there isn't that, that quality piece there. Those things jump out to me as a way to differentiate yourself and your your personal brand. Not that everybody needs one, but when you're in, when you're in an organization and, and, you know, everybody's doing everything now do those things matter more?

And I think

Ruthi Corcoran: it's the leaning into those things that you're excited about. Interested in care about that is sort of at the heart of that, right? Is it the case that the sort of higher quality equipment video, et cetera, is going to make sense for everybody or is going to be the thing that sets them apart?

No, part of part of the reason that's important and that sort of fits within within what you do, Dave, is because you care about it. And so that's just another emphasis on the things you care about. And so, to me, it's more of a leaning in and to all the things that get you excited, because that's where, you know, that confidence comes through certainly, but also that's what you want to spend your time in.

That's of value.

Alex Pokorny: Yeah, interesting 1 for you. And I'd like to know your guys opinion on this 1 because I. Come up with this theory and maybe it's completely wrong, but I would love to hear it.

Dave Dougherty: One of us are never correct. Ah, damn.

Alex Pokorny: You want that Mr. Rogers look? It's comforting.

The Role of Consistency in Professionalism

Alex Pokorny: No My question is basically it gets a little bit in personal brand, but also in appearance and kind of just overall professionalism at work and I think this is fairly general neutral of a statement but also And basically in the environment, it's pretty neutral as well is appearance in terms of professionalism is consistency.

And what my, this came from was I have facial hair. I've changed my beard style actually a number of times throughout my career. Each time though, whenever it's a dramatic change or something like that, I question it and I'm nervous about it thinking like, I want to make this change about myself, but.

This might seem a little weird to those around me because they're going to have to kind of get used to the new face, basically, how much do they think about that? Probably not very much at all. And a lot of that's probably just going to be in my head with my own confidence level on it. But what I realized was, especially with those who kind of.

Radically change their style from week to week or month to month professionalism and consistency. I don't know Do you see that as being like detrimental if you were to change your style a lot or kind of be still kind of finding? Your style so you're like really radically changing your clothing everything style Or do you think like there's some acceptance level there?

Which is kind of where my belief came from was you could wear basically whatever you want But if you do it consistently, people accept it and they move on. I really

Ruthi Corcoran: like that angle. I think you're on to something there of, you know, if your thing is wearing a bright red shirt going from like every day of wearing gray to then all of a sudden wearing bright red shirt, that's going to, that's going to strike a chord.

Yeah. Maybe it's a good chord, right? Maybe there's a special presentation and that makes sense. But if it's a sort of an average day or something like this, maybe that strikes a chord in a way that doesn't necessarily make sense. I don't, I think it's a good point of like, that consistency is, hey, people know, okay, that's the person.

It's a remembering thing of I. You know, that's the person who wears the red shirt, right? Even if it's just on the subconscious sort of level but I I don't know. I think you're onto something there alex about Consistency and professionalism because you give people what to expect and people like to know what to expect

Alex Pokorny: Yeah, that's what it gets down to.

I think honestly, it's almost like a kind of baseline stereotype of their perception of who you are, what you do is tied to your dress. So if you're a developer, you can totally show up with a sweatshirt when everybody else is wearing a dress shirt. That's allowed. That's just widely accepted. If you're creative, you can wear Crazy jewelry hairstyles, you name it, and you can be the one who is doing that versus everybody else on a call.

And that's also accepted and expected. If you're the project manager who does that, it suddenly becomes a question and it's like, that's why does the role have to matter? But it somehow does because a project manager is all about the consistency, punctuality, you know, basically on time aspect of a project.

Ruthi Corcoran: And I think that is not a. That's not a normative claim that you're making. That's not a, this is how it should be. I think you're making sort of a positive statement of this is how the world tends to be. And this, this kind of is sort of an under the layer, whether or not it should or shouldn't be. This is something that is part of how we think about roles in the workplace.

Alex Pokorny: Yeah. And I think that personal brand element comes in plays pretty hard in that aspect too, because I've seen and heard too many comments about appearances and stuff like that. And to me, it's like, I don't care. I honestly don't care. So that's, that's where I kind of came up with this of like, why does this become a thing?

And it only seems to become a thing when there's a lot of change. Aside from that, nobody seems to really care.

Dave Dougherty: The, the, my mind goes to the other side of that where it's the

there's a level of mistrust of someone who looks too perfect.

Personal Branding and Perception

Alex Pokorny: Oh, that's interesting. Intimidation? Or do you think just

Dave Dougherty: No, it's not intimidation. I'm, I'm more curious what they're covering for. Oh. You know, where it's the, okay, cool. You can, yeah, you can dress the part. You can say the right words. You can do that. But can you do the work? You know, I mean, because there are some people that are able to talk their way up the ladder and you know what good on you eventually you're going to fall, though, because you're not able to do the work.

And there are a lot of people who can do the work, but don't have the skill set or the mindset for the other things. So then they reach a ceiling. Right there are a number of people that come to mind where I'm like, what are you running from? Won't won't name names. They'll stay in my head. But yeah, I think there there's both ways I do.

I will just say for the record I don't really care what you show up to so long as you are on time Respectful and you can do the work. Otherwise like I you know, I'm hiring you for your mind. I'm not hiring you for the other stuff Yeah

Anyway, I'm going to stop talking before I get myself in trouble. Please respond.

The Influence of Fashion Trends on Professionalism

Ruthi Corcoran: I think this is so all, all of the little nuances that both of you have brought up are just as like, they're so important to this conversation because it's, it's sort of the like honest under the current, Hey, these are all the dynamics that you, you, you have, whether you think about them or not, are part of the Everyday workplace be it corporate or maybe for small business, right?

These are things that are there You can pay attention to them. You can opt out of paying attention to them But they are present and it's good to talk about them and I think what the pandemic did is it threw a giant wrench into everything that we were used to and sort of the expectations that we set and so I don't know where I cut off earlier, but this is sort of what we're coming back to of, hey, as we get into the office, be it in a hybrid version once a week, or just the occasional in office, a lot of our sort of norms and expectations were just shattered.

They're out the window. And so now we've got to refigure out what does it mean and I think there's been a current within a lot of the business trends of hey show up as you are encourage your employees to show up as they are Because they're going to bring sort of their unique skill sets and I like that emphasis Because it it takes us out of the group thing There was a day there used to be a day where you'd walk around One of my one of the workplaces I was at and literally everyone was in button down shirts and khakis Talk about groupthink.

I mean, it just, it sort of set the tone for this is how we do things, and there's not really a deviation. Now, I say that, and I'm going to put in a giant asterisk, which is, boy, am I a fan of uniforms. You know why? Because I don't have to think about them. And that's great. So I can see that there's a lot of pluses to having sort of a norm and a set of expectation for two reasons.

One is because it takes the day to day pressure off of what am I going to do? What am I going to wear? How am I expressing myself today? That's exhausting. I don't have time for that. The other piece that I, I think I like, I like playing with different sides of a coin. So the other. The piece that it brings is if you're a new employee, if you are coming from a different culture and you're joining into a workplace culture, it is really valuable that you know what the expectations are for what to wear to work because otherwise you have to figure out the under the surface games that everybody's playing about what they wear.

And that's a significant disadvantage to junior people and people who perhaps didn't grow up in the area in which they're working. So I'm just going to leave that to you guys to discuss.

Dave Dougherty: Yeah. Two thoughts. One, I find myself like revolting on the uniform piece. No, I know. I will, I will tell you where that comes from. I'll give you a story. But secondly,

I forgot the second thing. Okay. So we'll go back to the first one. I remember as a kid, Standing in the, the church we went to and looking around and seeing these like 25 year old guys with the baby carriers in khakis and plaid button downs. And I remember thinking, you're too young for that. And this is like.

When I'm seven, I was thinking this, like, why are you dressing like it's over? Because the 65 year old is wearing the same thing and you're only 25.

Alex Pokorny: Dressing like it's over,

Dave Dougherty: you know, like. Same thing like sweatpants are the death of desire. It's just, you know, you've given up Don't leave the house in them, you know that's my own view and I will I will plant that flag.

And so it was funny because I was talking to a guy friend of mine the other week and we were talking about fashion and and there's there's a nice thing about the You know, the idea of the dad at the barbecue wearing a stupid shirt and jeans, jean shorts that don't fit, like, you know, because there's zero expectation on that guy.

And you know what? He's probably really happy to be having everybody in, in the backyard hanging out, right? Like that, that's a good way to live. However, I don't want to look like that. I'm not going to wear plaid. I'm not going to wear any kind of Hawaiian shirt. I'm not because I still have hope for me.

But that's also just how I don't choose to present myself that way, right? I'm not about to wear a mustache anytime either, because I have strong feelings on mustaches. So

It's easy to fall into what am I going to wear on the weekends? Oh, I'll just do the polo and the whatever else because that's what I have for work. And I spend more time at work in work clothes. I will just continue to wear them because that's what's in my closet. And to me, that's a sin. And you shouldn't do that.

Ruthi Corcoran: I do that. And I'll tell you why. Because there used to be a time where I didn't do that. And you know what? I ended up with a closet that was exhausting to go through. And look at. And try and figure out. And worse, it was very difficult when it was like, Oh, I need a new pair of pants. Am I going to buy a pair of pants that goes with my weekend clothes or my work clothes?

Do I have to try and make both of that? Like, that's just a lot of extra mental load that I don't have time for. And so as much as possible these days, I try to make sure that like, you know, if I've got sort of a mock neck going on, it works with what I want to wear on the weekend, a pair of shorts. And what I want to wear at work, a nice pair of pants.

And if I've got a jacket, I want to make sure it goes with both because I don't have, I just don't have the extra bandwidth.

Dave Dougherty: So the other part of that conversation with the friend was that modular piece or like how you set up to reduce that. Because for me, I get excited living in the North when it's fall, winter, spring, because that's what my closet is set up for.

True story. Summer. Just get through it. You look good when it's fall. Right. But so I have it set so that I don't have to think about the pants because it's basically color. The fits the exact same, the styles, the exact same. Am I going to do? A t shirt with something? Yes or no? Or am I going to do, am I going to take a risk like I did today and do the sweater thing to maybe match Alex accidentally?

You know, I'm going to roll the dice on that one, but it, it works out. And then because of that, I have it by color. So do I want the white, the red, the blue, or the black one? That's it. So I'm really only deciding. Type and color in the morning and it's mostly a feeling as soon as I roll out of bed I know what kind of day it is, but that's cuz I'm A nerd and I pay attention to that kind of stuff.

Yeah, Alex, since you are very much associated with sweaters and collared shirts time for you to join the confessional

Alex Pokorny: Yeah, I was like, I really want

Ruthi Corcoran: to say

Alex Pokorny: this Because surprise, surprise, mine's about efficiency and scale. No, I'm kidding. It's actually pretty close to that though. It's actually, yeah, that's probably sadly a good summary.

So in the morning, t shirt and jeans. I get my kids ready. I dropped them off to daycare literally yesterday. My son ate a banana and I realized that my shoulder then had Nana on it literally under 10 minutes after I put that shirt on. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that, that, that that's about right.

That's for him. So, so that's what I always wear during the day and my evenings. Typically are the same because I'm running around with my kids DIY stuff college shirts. It's not a part of it Sweater is not a part of it either. So those are out. So of my lovely office Basements back to where the kids are playing.

That's the utility room over there in there. I have a coat rack And on my coat rack, I have many hangers of sweaters and shirts all set up. And I literally just pick one that I haven't worn recently. And my t shirt goes in that utility room. I throw on whatever it is. I do the meeting. I go back. I put it back on a hanger.

I grab my t shirt again. I wear that for the rest of the day. I literally just do meetings. And also, why sweaters and shirts? This is all the way back to Coco days. It's because you don't have to iron them. If the collar, collars never have to be ironed and cuffs never have to be ironed, they're always They don't wrinkle.

So if you can throw a sweater over the rest of it, you never have to iron your shirts again. And that helped my mornings a lot. So that's right. Years ago,

Dave Dougherty: my one hack for not wanting to dress up is to have the emergency sport coat. So in my closet over here or on the chair I have my emergency hoodie.

So, again, if I'm talking to 1 group of people, it's the hoodie. Another group of people, it's

Alex Pokorny: the sport coat. I never got into the sport coat thing. I could totally do that. But then again, back to the ironing thing. I'm not going to do it. I fully

Ruthi Corcoran: sympathize with your, I start the morning in 1 thing and then we shift later.

Same deal. Because if I, if I wear a nice shirt, there will be yogurt stains on it. Yup. That's the reality of life at the moment, and so hopefully we'll work

Alex Pokorny: around it. Trying to have nice things. Yeah, trying to have nice things. Well, that, from a laundry perspective, try to cut that down as much as possible, because it's just, again, keeping up with the rest of everything else.

The more I can basically make this easy on myself, that's the way I'm going to do it,

Dave Dougherty: so. It's funny, because being on video conference calls. Mm hmm. It has changed what I approach. So Fewer stripes because that just doesn't look good on camera

Ruthi Corcoran: No white background or no white shirts. No cream shirts for me because I will match my background

Dave Dougherty: And it's funny with the You know when we talked about going out into the real world with the the parties and and whatever else My background has done more for people remembering me then Anything I said at work because I'll show up to other places and they're like, oh, you're the guitar guy Yep, you know, so it's like having the generic background.

That's totally safe for work It does not help with you know, anybody remembering what you say Because there's not that that thing to stick in their brain, right? No

Alex Pokorny: personality trait of some sort. It's not

Ruthi Corcoran: Playing out for that. I also I tend to get a ton of remarks because these pictures are quite large, especially compared to my frame.

And so people, you know, when they first meet me, they go, Oh, I love your pictures. That's great. And usually my response, which is of course an honest one, is I have to look at myself on camera all day. I might as well look at something that I like in the background as well. You know, that's a huge, that's a huge part of our new world.

We are not just looking at our computer screens. We are looking back at ourselves constantly. And that's Also a shift, I think, I don't know how it's changed me. I haven't really reflected on that if at all. But I do want to have a nice background because at the very least I get to look at it.

Dave Dougherty: Well, and as the, a generic bald white guy with a beard you know, there's only so much you can do to dress that up.

To make it interesting because there's very limited options, really, honestly. So yeah, interesting. Interesting. Any

Ruthi Corcoran: final? I do have a change of, I do, I don't know if it's a final. This might open up a new one. Hopefully it's not too long, but this is something that, this is something that I've thought a lot about.

And so the pandemic happened at the same time that I had our first kid and I've since had another. And so not only do we have the pandemic where we shift to at home, but I want you to them. Amazing, awful, wonderful, all the words combined period of which in which my wardrobe changed like over and over and over again, which is exhausting.

So part of my like the exacerbation you've heard me speak about with the getting dressed thing has to do with that, which is having to rethink it and rethink it and adapt that can get tiring over time. But one of the things that i've noticed which I think is true within the fashion world But it probably is true elsewhere.

It's like there's a continuous flow of trends fashion people's norms cultural norms, etc And it continues to evolve and something like the pandemic or in my case, pregnancy the whole postpartum period etc Threw me out of that flow And now I find myself coming in Later in the flow and being totally out of touch and out of like, I don't have the context for how things have changed because I was thrown out of the flow of culture, so to speak, and there's some ways you can stay into it.

Right? You can, you can go on the instagram. You can go on the tick tocks. Those have their sort of downsides elsewhere and exacerbating it is the fact that we're not in the office. And so I, I go in and I have no idea what the thing is. Okay. And bonus points, I don't know if you guys noticed skinny jeans are way out No, good.

Now we need a different style of pants with a different style of shoe. And it's just been fascinating to observe what sort of a removal from the cultural conversation has done and how curious and tricky it is to get back into that cultural conversation in a way that I can still go, yeah, I'm part of the cultural conversation, but this is also still like, this is, this is me.

This is what I, how I want to show up every day. And this is what makes me feel confident.

Dave Dougherty: Yeah, I mean, as a guy with broad shoulders, I can't do skinny jeans because I look like grew.

Yeah, no, I think. It was interesting. Like what was it last year, Ruthi, you and I were talking about the Milan fashion week and I remember looking at the Versace and the Gucci and, and, and all the designers that were trying to do cool stuff and going, Oh my God, that looks like the couch my dad had in the seventies.

You know, so it's like that's not evolving. We're regressing to ideas that previously worked is just new shinier material You know where it's just like oh No way in hell am I going to be seen in that? So Yeah, it's interesting. I have my solution to what you said because I do think Kids have a wonderful way of just getting rid of the bs Cause you just don't have time for it.

Like you said for me what's become important is what are the kind of the classics? Because I can either try to keep up with it or I can get two or three nice pieces that will look really good. And so like my challenge to myself this winter was to do more with the, the sort of pea coat that I had, instead of the, the kind of ratty leather jacket.

That is a wonderful windbreak, but it doesn't necessarily look that good. So, the way I've been able to do that is to then accessorize with a couple of scarves. So I have a really nice thin one, I have a really nice knitted heavy one that's super long that I can wear to the bus stop and take all the wind, you know, that's whipping around the bus stop with my son.

And that's been an interesting, an interesting change, you know, because then it's the It's more of, if you view fashion more as an investment rather than the fast fashion thing, which I've never bought into, I would rather have three or four nice pieces that last for a while than a 20 H and M thing that's going to last maybe six months, you know?

Alex Pokorny: Totally. Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's it. I mean, there's also, like you said, like getting rid of the S but the attention span for that often do I find myself in a mall? Never. How often do I find myself like shopping for clothes very rarely? Like, yeah, there's some consistency of. You know, work and culture and age, I mean, speaking of that kind of just different age groups as well.

There's less pressure right now to continually kind of be up on fashion, like during college or high school. Absolutely. I was caring a lot about fashion since then it's dropped every year probably,

Dave Dougherty: right? Cause you're married. You don't have to peacock anymore, man. That's

Alex Pokorny: what, that's what it was all about.

I mean, the, yeah. Dude, you're done. You're done. You, as you said to those guys in church, like they're done. Exactly. Yeah. Be next until I'm done, man. That's it. That's it. Just be next. I mean, there's

Dave Dougherty: something to be said about being the old guys getting coffee in the morning in the diner. Like I kind of look forward to those years with, you know, what friends are left.

But at the same time, I don't need to look that way. And if you

Alex Pokorny: enjoy and find fun and confidence through what you wear, then yeah, spend some time with it and enjoy it. Like, if you don't care at all, fine, that's cool too. I mean, do your own thing.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Dave Dougherty: Interesting conversation. Hopefully, it resonates with some of you.

I know it's not necessarily a marketing and digital business thing, but it is a an important part of the, the business world we're operating in now. So a fun, fun deviation from all the other stuff. Let us know what you think, thoughts, comments, questions any closet hacks, you might have let us know emails in the description.

And yeah, we will see you in the next episode of Enterprising Minds. Take care.