Ep 37 - Exploring OpenAI's Search GPT and Zero-Click Content Strategies

Watch the YouTube video version above or listen to the podcast below!

Ep 37 - Exploring OpenAI's Search GPT and Zero-Click Content Strategies Podcast and Video Transcript

[Disclaimer: This transcription was written by AI using a tool called Descript, and has not been edited for content.]

Dave Dougherty: All right, welcome to the latest episode of Enterprise of Minds. You have Ruthi and Dave today. Ruthi's back after a while, she's finally back. So we are going to catch her up to speed on a couple of different things because for both of us work has been a bit crazy. You know, the normal day jobs.

So there were a couple of things we decided we were going to talk on. First thing first, the announcement of search GPT by open AI a couple of days ago, but then related to that. A post from Ran Fishkin, who's, you know, a thought leader that the three of us inevitably end up referring to quite a bit, had an interesting post on sort of the transition from the way we've been doing things for the last 20 years in digital marketing to kind of how to adapt to the realities of today, which of course, is a topic that we've discussed many a times.

So we'll just revisit it with a couple of new lenses there. So without further ado, I think we'll, we'll jump in.

Pastry Preferences Debate

Dave Dougherty: Actually, to be honest, I'm a little flabbergasted by something Ruthi told me before we, we jumped on about pastries. So if I stammer a little bit, we'll Hey, before we

Ruthi Corcoran: explain that the question you need to answer rhetorically for yourself is when you're eating a piece of pie, Do you care more about the crust or do you care more about the filling?

And what is the sort of essential part of the pie that you care about?

Dave Dougherty: For me, it's the whole thing. Is it imbalanced? Does it taste good? Is it structurally sound? Right?

Ruthi Corcoran: And Dave was appalled to hear that I essentially eat the crust and the filling sort of a nice additive to the crust, but I'd be fine if most of the filling was just left on the plate and I just ate the crust, which is exactly what I did before this call.

Dave Dougherty: So many of you might be able to understand why I'm a little taken aback by that.

Do you do the same thing with pizza?

Ruthi Corcoran: Pizza is all about the cheese, like just extra cheese and the crust of the pizza is mostly as a mechanism for, you know, not getting the cheese on your hand.

Dave Dougherty: Okay. So pie is a crust-delivering mechanism, but then pizza is a cheese-delivery system. Wow. Okay. Okay. Tag us on socials. Let us know what you think about this way in the emails in the episode description.

And now we'll get to less confounding things.

Exploring OpenAI's Search GPT

Dave Dougherty: I think I'm going to just attempt, try new things as we often recommend people do I'm going to share a desktop live. And let's see how that works. So this is the page for OpenAI search GPT prototype. You can join the wait list, which I have just to be able to see if we can play around around with it and what they're doing and largely what this seems.

To be is a search capability added to the normal chat GPT interface so that you can ask more things, get more information and have things. Cited within your normal chat GPT window. I thought it was really interesting. Yeah, the, the screenshots and stuff that they have have here. The, the UI looks good.

And then here you can see the citations in, in the information that comes up university of Minnesota being featured. So we'll call that out. But then this is the thing that jumped out to me was the partnering with publishers and creators, because often in this conversation, you end up having people referring back to when the search engines did a bait and switch on sort of traditional publishers of, you know, just let us crawl your site and then, you know, you'll get more clicks and more revenue and then blah, blah, blah.

But then, you know, or more subscriptions and then it, you know, Ended up just changing to be an ad revenue piece. And, you know, a lot of them have, have folded since. So a lot of the conversation around, you know, are they going to be doing that again? But with AI but then also where's the actual paragraph.

So they're definitely talking about the relationships that they've had with publishers. And if you've been paying attention to the news around this lately open AI has talked about getting licensing deals with a lot of top publishers so that their information can be cited while also not having their data be part of the training.

Yeah. So here it is. So we've partnered with publishers to build the experience and continue to seek their feedback. In In addition to launching the SearchGPT prototype, we're also launching a way for publishers to manage how they appear in SearchGPT, so publishers have more choices. Importantly, SearchGPT is about search and is separate from training OpenAI's generative AI foundation models.

So they, the sites can be surfaced in the search results, even if they opt out of generative AI training, and then they go on to explain a little bit more.

Ruthi's Live Reaction to SearchGPT

Dave Dougherty: So Ruthi, what, What jumps out at you with with what you saw and opening statements.

Ruthi Corcoran: Okay. So this is very cool. And what you guys are getting right now is a live reaction to me, because as Dave mentioned, I have been heads down in work for the last for a while now, but I have not been staying up on the news.

I have not been catching up on things. So these are my immediate reactions to what I'm seeing. So first off, one of the things that strikes me is this. The way they presented is very conversational search, especially with the ability, at least based on the prototype to follow up with questions about, hey, tell me about this place.

Okay. If I go there, what temperature is it going to be? Like, basically tell me more. And that conversational search piece, I think is. Important and distinct from the way that we, we everyday users are using search today. We search a thing. We go. Okay, cool. Now we search a different thing, but there's no memory there.

There's no context for the things you're searching. It's just a one off snapshot. So, just from a user perspective, I'm kind of excited about about that potential, right? It may not be perfect right out the gate, but there's a lot of potential there because oftentimes when you're searching, you are asking follow up questions.

And you're hoping that the thing you click on or the Google results you see. Will show you the next answer that you're looking for where in this one, you can you can continue that conversation. Some of the other things, you know, that stand out to me is the website itself or talking about search with open AI.

It's both showcasing the new tech, but it's also teaching you, here's how you're going to use this new tool, which I think is an interesting play on, Hey, not only is this your new tech, but here's how you can start to think about using this. And it's giving you the ability to, to see why and how it would be useful.

And then the last piece of course is. I think they have done a good job of first showcasing, Hey, for you, the average user, this is how it's going to be useful. Or here's how you're going to be using this, this new technology. Here's why you should use our new technology. But then it's also saying, Hey, we know you content creators.

We know the struggles you have with search engines and social media right now. We are going to solve your problems, which also makes it an easier buy in. And so if I put my Martek hat on all of a sudden I go, yeah, okay. I want to work with those guys because if, if they are going to get the broad user base that I expect they are, I want to be working with them and they're going to make it easy for me to work with them too.

So this is pretty exciting. Just right off the bat. I think this is cool. It's a good advance. And personally, I'm likely to use this much more than what I see right now. When I type in a Google search result, it gives me a summary that. Frankly, I don't necessarily trust. I scroll right past it and I go to the actual sources.

Minnesota University of Minnesota is a good call out because I go to those guys all the time and I'm likely to just ignore the summary. I want to get to. Hey, what are the actual people say? And it seems like chatty or the opening. I folks are. Are serving up the content in a way that provides a bit more trust to then here's a summary of all the things on the internet,

Dave Dougherty: right?

Yeah, I do find it interesting. I I'll call out a couple of things.

Discussion on Digital Marketing Trends

Dave Dougherty: One I just I just recorded an episode with Alex where he talks about the unbelievable struggles that he had with perplexity which Months and months and months, people have been calling a Google killer. But Alex has did an experiment and discovered that really simple stat polls were completely wrong or surfacing the wrong things.

So. That I'll, I'll link to that when when that one gets published, but, but keep your, keep your eyes out for that next episode and that discussion. But then the flip side of it too, is if you watch the Apple WWDC announcement, where they talked about the Apple intelligence and their partnership with open AI and chat, GPT and integrating chat, GPT on the devices.

At the kind of OS level is that is definitely going to reach that user base for sure. But then also I think there's the way Apple spoke of what they're trying to do with their intelligence and what they're trying to do with the new and improved. Siri, I can definitely see come coming in like this, where if Siri can't find you the answer, then they can go do, you know, it'll say, do you want to use chat GBT?

You say yes. And then it brings up this search GBT, making things much easier to find, which could be great.

Ruthi Corcoran: You know, that brings up, that's a, that's a really good point too. And I think about this Apple model and one of the things that Apple's very good about is curating its ecosystem and making sure that not only is its own software optimizing for the user experience, but making sure that everyone within its ecosystem is also optimizing for that.

And I wonder if open AI is taking a leaf out of Apple's. Playbook there in partnering with publishers and content creators to say, Hey, we want you guys to be able to bring your best self to the table because it makes us better. And you, it's harder to do that if you're sort of black. Crawling everything and showcasing everything you find, that's, it takes much more of a curated partnership.

And I, that's something Apple does well, and perhaps OpenAI is going to go that route a little bit well, as well, in part, because one of the pieces it has to overcome is the trust signals. You know, we know that A. I. S. and L. L. M. S. hallucinate. We know that it's not always accurate, right? Alex's tests can can show you that, right?

So how do we a make sure our information is more accurate and then be build the trust that comes along with that accuracy. .

Dave Dougherty: Yeah. And it is interesting with, with Google's whole piece with their announcements earlier this year on, it's not just an updated search, we're now in that era of Gemini as the, as they're saying you know, the.

The Gemini powered search, the search or the AI powered search experience used to be called what SGE now AI overviews. I mean, everything is changing so much. I try to keep all the acronyms and all the phrases together. It has left a lot wanting there's been some interesting. Research from the SEO community into like how frequently the search experiences or the AI overviews are actually appearing and on like what types of phrases.

But also it really is that Trust piece, I think where there's going to be a large chunk of people that are just happy to get whatever information they get. Right. And then there's going to be another chunk of people that want to double check everything. And then there's everybody else in the middle, right?

Which largely it's when I hear people talking about Using AI, getting information from AI, I'm relating it back to, you know, the, the old analog models where it's like, how much information do you trust from your uncle Bob, when they say, I heard blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or your best friend. You know, saying the same things like there's the context, there's that, that history from that particular individual for like either outlandish sayings or things that, that are worth listening to.

And I think we're still in the feeling out the relationship. Side of things with, with the new tools for sure. But I also think this is the partnering with publishers is also a really nice hedge against some, some litigation or the training models, right? Cause it's harder to sue each other when you're paying for the information.

But I want to go

Ruthi Corcoran: back to your comment about. The different populations and their threshold for different information and how much citations are needed. I think, I suspect that that's also very context dependent and a given individual for some types of information they're looking for will just take whatever the summary is because that's all they need.

Maybe it's a low risk sort of situation, or they just need a quick hit. And there's going to be summit situations in which they need a little bit more detail, they need to make sure they can trust it. And other situations where it's like, no, no, I want to know the latest research on this. What are the, what are the experts saying?

What are the various trials and tests saying? And it, it might be. Individuals might have different thresholds, but also within a given individual, you might have different different context and different preferences for those types of things. And I think the analogy for me is you know, when we. Is this going to be I'll connect it back?

I promise. But when Dave and I go to. By new kitchen appliance. We're going to have very different preferences. Dave cooks way more than I do, and he might be interested in the more high tech or the more advanced or the more expert level. And I go, I just, I just need the basic 1 that just gets the job done.

Right? Because we live in different contexts, but then you switch to gardening and Dave's like, I don't know, just give me a lawnmower and I'm going to have every piece of kit. There is out there. Right? And so I think that's the case in the trick that the. The various search engines have to meet is even though each individual might have a different set of preferences, they've got to serve up across the whole swath of preferences.

And so with Google at least what I've seen so far, this is just personal experience. You're getting the sort of rough summary which might serve some use cases. But perhaps doesn't get that more in depth. It doesn't meet those more in depth use cases in a way that it looks like from the prototype.

Open AI is shooting for whether they get there. We'll see.

Dave Dougherty: Well, and that was one of the things that Alex and I discussed was just like the promise of the launch video for co pilot. And then what you actually experience with co pilot. And, you know, at first it's like, wow, that's amazing. You do it. And and then you remember, oh, right.

It's Microsoft product. They do this all the time.

Ruthi Corcoran: It's so handy. I, you know, I guess I didn't watch the, I didn't have high expectations. And so maybe my bar was lower, but I've enjoyed using it. It's been very helpful. Keep it up. It has its

Dave Dougherty: uses. Absolutely. It has its uses. Does it stand up to other things on the market?

In my experience. No, it does not

Ruthi Corcoran: man. I'll take it every time.

Dave Dougherty: Yeah. Okay. Listen, listen to the, the episode that's forthcoming also shameless self promotion in blog posts on my website. I talk about Apple and all of these companies doing their announcements in their different conferences for their AI products, right?

And to one of your earlier points, I think the brilliance in what Apple has decided to do is not optimized for everybody, which, you know, open AI and Google are definitely in an arms race for Apple is very much at that personal level. And that was one of the things that they constantly said in their announcements was we want to give you the experience with your personal context, which ends up being not only super smart for the user experience, but then I think that gets almost 80 percent of the use cases out of the way, right?

Where it's the, the, I find it really curious on all of these demonstration videos, they are constantly putting out like. Oh, I need to go pick up my mom from the airport. And it hit me the other day, I was like, How often are people going to the airport?

Like, if, if that really is, like, the main use case of, Oh yeah, I need to drive to the airport in 30 minutes and, Did we have a lunch plan? Well, I don't know, if you're part of my family, it's expected. You're traveling, you're gonna be hungry, we're gonna stop. Before we get home. That's just what we do no matter what.

And that's the first question. How was their fight? Do you need anything, you know, like coffee, food, whatever. Yeah. Every time. But yeah, it's always the, that's the use case that they have or help me plan this, this trip. And it's like, okay, that, that could be useful. I have found myself wondering, but honestly, I think if you're a normally functioning human being, you should be able to know.

It's going to take me a half an hour to get to the airport. It's going to take me an hour to eat. It's going to, you know, like you just, you kind of know these things. And if you really need your calendar to map out every minute. You might reconsider your lifestyle

Ruthi Corcoran: too much going on

Dave Dougherty: too. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. There's this great bit from the comedian Brian Regan that I absolutely love where he talks about how there are microwave instructions on pop tarts and it's like microwave for 10 seconds. It was like, if you need to zap, fry a pop tart for breakfast, you need to reconsider what you're doing, because you should have more time.

So highly recommend people go check out that that bit. It's so worthwhile.

Rand Fishkin's Insights on Content Strategy

Dave Dougherty: The flip side of this actually, and, and to get it into more of a, a tactical space with what we talked about with Rand Fishkin here. This is from a LinkedIn post that he has, and I'll, I'll share my screen here again.

Now it's a video. Post where he's talking and, and I think the, the pause screen will look more aggressive than what the actual video messaging is, but essentially his thesis is essentially the way a lot of digital marketers are continuing to talk is exactly what worked 20 years ago, right?

Attribution you're going to have. A ton of clicks and you're going to talk about click-through rates and clicks on search and all these things. But the reality of the way the platforms have changed and adapted and the incentives of the organizations to get you off their platform into this other place are misaligned, right?

So you end up seeing the zero content. Strategy. And a lot of people have been talking about a zero content strategy for the particular places that you choose to perform or place your content. But I thought this was an interesting screen grab just because it does talk a little bit about the incentives and, and your posting strategy and You know how AI is supposed to be this huge shift, like you'd be able to be more productive and get more content out of things, but really.

More isn't necessarily better, right? Sometimes it's just more and, and messier. So Ruthi again, hot take. We know that we typically like Rand we know. Content marketing is definitely a way to engage with your audiences. How are you thinking about targeting your audiences these days, or does this resonate with you at all?

Ruthi Corcoran: Can you pull up that screenshot again, just so I can have it as a visual reference as I talked to you? Cause I think this is sort of, this is, What he's talking about here is a trend that's been going on for a long time. And I think for folks working in the digital marketing space or just the marketing space in general, this, this ought not come as a surprise.

So if I'm summarizing what I'm seeing here, it's taking a look at, okay, for all of the given digital, Big digital platforms, the YouTubes, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, LinkedIn, Tik TOK, et cetera. You know, to what extent do they allow you to link out to additional content within a given post? Right. So Google of course is all about outlinks.

You're linking to things everywhere. Instagram. Yeah, the focus isn't really so much on linking out to content. It's, it's, you don't really link within an Instagram post. Do they allow outlinks in bios? Mostly yes, right? In Instagram, if you're excited about what the content you're seeing, you go to the bio, you click the link, and then you can go to the store or whatever it is they have.

Does the algorithm prioritize native content by and large this this table is showing? Yes, of course. Right? Google, Instagram, Twitter, they want you to stay within the platform to stay within that ecosystem and then do the creators benefit from a 0 click approach, which I think is sort of this is more the opinion coming from from Rand Fishkin of.

By and large, yes, the creators do. And so one of the things that my my initial reaction to looking at this data is boy, the shift in the landscape is so much more on. You are establishing not so much visit levels and traffic levels like that's not the focus of your play in these areas. Your play in these areas is something much more abstract about do people recognize you?

Are they interacting with you or with your brand? Not so much with The links on the things, right? It's much less about the individual post about the individual thing and more about how are people interacting with you? In, in I mean, abstract is the way, and I think about this as the connection between like real and digital, right?

Oftentimes, one of the things you see is brands that are very strong in quote, real life are going to show up higher in search results because they've established more brand trust. And I think. This is, there's something similar and analogous there where your play in all of these different digital platforms is much more establishing your relationship with the audience, establishing your trust and your credibility and building up your brand presence.

And I don't think AI shifts that. I think that. As a, as we look at that open AI introduction to search, right, they're going to be working with publishers. But the focus is still going to be keeping you within the open AI ecosystem, like, continue to talk to the open, like, continue to talk to the AI, continue to have these conversations.

Oh, and by the way, we're going to be working with publishers and content creations for whom you might already have established some sort of trust relationship, likely via these other platforms. It sort of blends and it feeds over. And so I think that the strength of the sort of omni channel approach continues it's you're making yourself visible and you're making yourself present on the platforms that people like to engage in and you're, you're remaining relevant within their ecosystem that they prefer.

Dave Dougherty: I think my take from this is largely what we. What I've recommended to clients and employers for a very long time is you're leveraging these platforms. Yes, to communicate to a target audience. But once you get that target audience interacting with you, how do you maintain that relationship? How do you get them into your own ecosystem?

And you know, I mean this is, it depends on whatever lens you wanna look at, right? A lot of, a lot is made out of the content creator space because they are so dependent on attention and getting getting the various platforms to like them, right? But even for, for big. Big organizations, how much of your target audience is on each of these platforms?

And then how do you build it in a way where you can get a percentage of those into your owned media, like an email list, like, you know, your own website and changing that behavior. So that they actually think of you top of mind. You know, one of my initial reactions when, when I came out and with a lot of the changes in, in Google over the last couple of years, I was like, man, digital PR, everybody has poo pooed it for like 10 years.

And it seems to be the answer for most things. It helps you get trust. It helps you get featured on platforms. People already trust. It gets you the backlinks to then appear on Google so that when people see you on a YouTube, a Tik TOK and Instagram, they may not remember you exactly, but they will search for something and then be remembered or be reminded that you're there.

Of you when you appear in the search. Right. So in terms of, you know, getting attribution on that customer journey, that's just fraught and that doesn't really work, right? Because if it's, you saw a video on Instagram and then you searched, well, search is going to get the attribution, right? The way a lot of companies end up attributing it, but yeah, I don't know, there's a lot to, there's a lot to think about,

Ruthi Corcoran: I want to play around with one of the Ideas you've tossed out there and I'm emphasis on playing around and poking holes in this.

I am wondering if the value of owned media is going to continue to decline. I think it has declined, right? It used to be website. Awesome. Show up on Google, then all of a sudden social media came in and now it's not just your own media. It's all your other places that you're, you're playing, that you have a presence and that you're communicating with your audience and, and tying back to the owned media.

I think that open AI is just the latest in a series of here's one more place in which you have the opportunity to communicate with it. Your audience or a potential audience in another ecosystem. And I don't know that the goal is to get back to your own ecosystem insofar as you need to make a sale potentially.

Yes. But I think about a lot of the the folks I see on Instagram who then go and do a collaboration with poverty pottery barn, right. They didn't, you didn't need to go to their own ecosystem in order for them to have a real world money making interaction. You need to go to Pottery Barn. That's somebody else's ecosystem.

And so I wonder if the way in which We interact in the markets and these different ecosystems becomes even more dispersed and less reliant on owned. I can think of a couple examples wherein I'm using email newsletters, but by and large, I don't care. I don't, it's not what my email is used for. And I, I wonder if that is true of other, other people as well.

And if that's true of enough people where they're much more interested in being interactive and interacting with brands, interacting with people, influencers, et cetera, within their ecosystem of choice.

Dave Dougherty: You know, I, I go back to again, an off the wall idea you had years back that, you know, amongst our friends, you are well known for Ruthi once pitched that. Organizations didn't need a website. They could just largely build it off of an Excel sheet.

Ruthi Corcoran: True story.

Dave Dougherty: I still don't know what to do with that. Yeah. But recently I have come around a little bit. You know, I'm, I'm willing to capitulate slightly. Let me stand up

Ruthi Corcoran: for my idea. You finish it. I'll stand up for my idea. Just a moment. Yes.

Dave Dougherty: We will point counterpoint.

With some of the email newsletters, depending on what you're trying to communicate when you're trying to do, you know, with that. I think there's a possibility there where you could just do the email newsletter. That being said, I get hesitant because when I was, you know, doing the full time musician thing a lot of bands, a lot of artists at that time, this was

2008, 2009, you know, that timeframe I was like, well, you don't really need a website. You just need to be on Facebook. You just need that Facebook band page and you'll be good to go. And then what happened? Facebook completely flipped the, the algorithm and they lost all their reach, you know? So then they had to build out their own websites.

Although some bands still to this day are leveraging their artist profile on the record company website and not necessarily their own. They're definitely pros and cons to that model, but I can see that experience makes me hesitate to, you know, not play in so, you know, not having something of your own to play around with.

Right.

Ruthi Corcoran: I couldn't agree more. There's sort of, there, there is with all things a balance. And there's a, there's a need to diversify. So T to your really good example, not having an owned presence, you're missing out on something. If I go to go and look for a carpet cleaner in the area. And they only have a phone number listed on the Google reference.

I'm much less likely to click that phone number than I am to go, Oh, okay. This guy, these guys have a website where I can go and learn and hear from them what services they offer. I care about the reviews and I care about, you know what people are saying about them, but I also care that they've taken the time to say, this is what we offer.

This is what we stand for. So of course, the value of owned is still there. I think that my my current idea is perhaps the value of that being your central end all be all has diminished over time, and it's important to have your own space within the digital ecosystem, but it is growing. It's equally important and perhaps even more important over time that you are playing a presence within all these other different ecosystems and perhaps even more of what you're doing, interacting with customers and the transactions are happening there.

Now, a couple of thoughts on this spreadsheet idea. So there's a few pieces that come into this first. I've, I come from a background in which a lot of the websites I've worked on weren't so much about e commerce. They're about dispersing information. And if your goal is to disperse information, especially if we look at the search realm, it's important that you get the first click on Google.

But perhaps it's even more important that every single Google search result that comes up references your company or your idea or whatever it is that you're promoting. Because then you have ten links talking about you rather than just your link. Similarly, as search engines in particular have become more about their own native content, i.e. telling you the answer within the platform, Well, do you need to put a lot of time and effort into building up a website that does all this stuff? What if there was a much more efficient way in which you could make sure Google's pr Displaying the cracked information about the product that you're selling, et cetera, especially in the event that they're just going to go to Amazon.

Anyways, make sure that they get the right information and then make sure that they can buy it from their crack channel. So that was sort of the idea. And what I'm noticing through this conversation, which is a really good one. I love this. I love what you show showed from Rand Fishkin is that is sort of fitting into this larger trend that I see anyways Information is becoming more and more dispersed and there's different ways that people are consuming it.

And so the more that you can diversify your portfolio of how you're presenting content and interacting with ecosystems, the more effective you're going to be.

Dave Dougherty: Yeah. And I do think it does depend to your point of the, the sharing, the knowledge piece of it and what it is. Your industry is there. If you were a product based company.

Just starting out, my recommendation for what you should do would be very different than if you're an already established thing, like yeah, if you have a single product that is really high quality that you know, addresses a particular audience need finding. First off, making sure you have products to distribute right via Amazon or wherever they buy.

That's thing number one, obviously, but then thing number two is getting to where people already trust. So, you know, the brand also shares a risotto rice example where they go to, you know, Bon Appetit magazine and, and website and, you know, getting influencers and affiliate markets for chefs and the magazines.

That to me is probably a better play when you're starting out with a new product or a new company than doing the mass communications, because ultimately the thing I think we forgot about is with digital marketing. When you have the website, you went from being only able to communicate locally with whoever you had in your organization to now being able to communicate to anybody who has a similar interest in the world.

Right. For what it is you, you sell and mass communications is not always the answer. So yeah, lots, lots of things to think about on this one. Again, we'll definitely be coming back to this topic and this idea as it is really central to you know, running marketing effectively, handling marketing and sales effectively.

And also they're just really fun ideas to play around with, as you said, Ruthi.

Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

Dave Dougherty: So thank you everybody for hanging out. Like subscribe, share, help us out. Let us know. If you resonate with any of these things, what have you tried? Where have you been noticing? Please let us know again, any feedback you have for the show.

We welcome, and we want to know, cause we will tailor that into the topics we cover or the way in which is presented. So please reach out to do that. And Ruthi, I hope the pie filling finds a home and is no longer abused. And with that, we will see you in the next episode of Enterprising Minds. Thanks so much.