Ep 50: Navigating the World of Freelancing - Essential Tips and Advice

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Ep 50: Navigating the World of Freelancing - Essential Tips and Advice Podcast and Video Transcript

[Disclaimer: This transcription was written by AI using a tool called Descript, and has not been edited for content.]

Dave Dougherty: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to episode 50. We hit the milestone, guys. We didn't necessarily plan anything super mega, awesome. Special. 'cause you know, we're all working parents of little kids.

Listener's Request: Freelancing Insights

Dave Dougherty: But we are doing a special episode because Ruthie, I believe this was pitched to you by someone that you know and who had listened to a previous episode.

Am I remembering correctly?

Ruthi Corcoran: You got it. One of our listeners. A request. She's interested in freelancing and the potential for freelancing or even what doesn't she know that she should ask about with respect to freelancing. And I had mentioned that you guys have both had some experience in this space, [00:01:00] especially Alex.

And that, that might be a topic for our upcoming, our upcoming show. And while this isn't something special per se, planned for episode 50, I think the fact that it's somebody in the listening and wanting to know more mm-hmm. About a particular topic, that in of itself makes it pretty darn special.

Dave Dougherty: Absolutely. So, so all the times that we have said, click the link below, hit us up on LinkedIn, we mean it. So go do that after this episode and so we can we can do more, more like these for sure. So, I dunno. Alex, you have the most experience in this. You just wanna take this and run it. Or Ruthie, do you wanna moderate it?

I guess, how do you guys wanna play this?

Ruthi Corcoran: Yeah, I can moderate a little bit. I think first up I'd just be, you know, if you could recap, Hey, this is, this is what I've done in the freelancing world and this is my history and background. That'd be awesome to set context.

Dave Dougherty: Sure. All right.

Alex's Freelancing Journey

Dave Dougherty: So my background with [00:02:00] freelancing was I needed to eat and nobody knew me.

Nobody knew what I could do. I had a writing degree and I could play guitar, and that doesn't necessarily translate to, you know, a business job, marketing job. But I really wanted to get into marketing. So I started doing copywriting, freelance writing, website building. 'cause at the time, you know WordPress was, you know, really new.

So that was kind of a new, a new thing. And being able to say, yeah, I'm really familiar with, you know, websites and SEO and how to do that was a big, a big thing. Ultimately, I can boil down a lot. Of what I did, you know, in order for Alex to talk about the stuff he did it was a lot of freelance writing, ghost writing four businesses, or four opinion leaders, thought leaders at the time.

And a lot of it just had to do with going to somebody who. [00:03:00] I thought it was doing something interesting, or I had heard through the grapevine that they were looking for somebody. So then I just reached out and said, Hey, you're doing something cool, or, I heard you could use a writer. Let's meet for coffee.

And just kind of went after it. And tried to insert myself into some cool projects and some of 'em worked, a lot of 'em didn't. But you know, it, it allowed me to build up a portfolio that, made it less risky to hire me for the other marketing jobs, right? 'cause I wasn't just the artist who's doing marketing.

It's like, no, here's, here's a legit portfolio of work. And the fact that he's a writer and a and a musician plays into the creativity. The creativity or the creative team that we would put him on. So, that's kind of the summary of, of my background. Alex? Similar or totally different?

Alex Pokorny: Totally different.

So freelanced for about two and a half years, somewhere around there came outta college. And you're talking about kind of like the reasoning [00:04:00] for it and. Came outta college with this idea that like CEOs are must be geniuses. And anybody who's like owns a company must be like, just, you know, the smartest people to somehow be making, you know, making money.

And that's gotta be really hard. Mm-hmm. Oh boy. Has that opinion shattered? Oh, that was great. That that was a big piece of it, honestly. It really was. So I had a marketing degree. I started working for a digital marketing company agency, and then a meeting a bunch of CEOs that, quite frankly. Yeah, burst that bubble real quick and it was like, man, anybody can do this.

Even, I mean, there's some people who are making some really, really, obviously poor decisions, but they're sticking with it because that's what they wanted to do or whatever else, and you know mm-hmm. Kinda watched 'em crash and burn too, and it's like, man, if I could figure this out and I'm, you know, barely outta college.

Here, I can do this too. The other piece about that is I started doing web analytics, got very quickly into SEO. I. [00:05:00] And myself and one of the guys at the company who is doing paid search shout out to Jared, who's still doing it. He's got a bunch of side projects and side stuff and software and stuff like that that he's, he's launched over the years too.

But we talked about it a lot. The Philly marketing was big at that time as well, so it seemed like there was a lot of like digital marketing, entrepreneurial kind of things. And I was meeting honestly, with a lot of companies and. They thought my skills were somehow amazing and I just learned them.

Right? Like it was one of these things where it's like, how is this a rarity? Like you've been in this business for 20, 30 years and you think this guy who has like a year of experience is somehow smart. I. Which seems absurd. So there's that. And then also just kind of being in that space. There's other people who also talk about, you know, side hustles freelance work.

Oh, I know somebody who owns a company who would love to know more about how to. I don't know, deal with [00:06:00] Google. You know, my business, which it's called now. Mm-hmm. Google places, Google Maps, like Google listings or something like that. And they're like, Hey, you know something about it. Can you, could you talk to them?

Could you help them? Maybe, you know, you could charge some them something, you know, for your time and stuff like that. So it kinda like that atmosphere. Also that agency was very rapidly growing. I was like employee 14 and after. Two, three years there, we had like 50 people. Which is not a, not a great time to be with the company if you don't like working crazy, crazy hours.

And I worked six days a week long hours every day and it was just crazy. But it also forwarded me opportunity to learn a lot as well on that time. And online too. I mean, like. There was tons of people who were doing attempts at some sort of, you know, at home e-commerce or drop shipping or affiliate or freelance, you know, contract work.

Mm-hmm. And then at one point also I brought in [00:07:00] Lancer and a couple other. I kind of short term contract roles because we had a big content kind of problem and it was stuff I literally had read online. It was like people were hiring people from, you know, outside the US for, you know, buck a a hundred words, you know, a kind of a rate and you know, $1 for a hundred words.

Sorry, I shouldn't use the analogy phrase there, but, that I brought in a, a, started managing a team basically of freelancers doing that, you know, posting jobs, them getting it done. And I was editing. Eventually I hired writers and editors had a group of, I dunno, between somewhere between about five and 30, depending on the project.

And then also did a data entry group. Ended up hiring a group of people to do that too. So it was also like being surrounded by like, holy cow, like. People are paying this agency a lot of money. I'm not being paid a lot of money. I'm an entry of employee. Honestly, I eventually argued for a raise because I realized how underpaid I was, which was crazily underpaid.

Mm-hmm. But there's also like, there's so much opportunity online and there's also [00:08:00] people in all these other countries who are also doing similar work for far different, like economic numbers and stuff. And there's like, it seems like something's gotta work. And then one of the main things that really kicked it off was a book by Tim Ferris called a Four Hour Work Week, and he.

It gets down to this point and honestly of the entire book, the piece that got really got me going and he was doing affiliate drop shipping stuff with the book. So I mean on on, on page, on topic for that was a section of saying what would be the worst I. What would be the worst that could happen to him?

And I think his was getting bit by a dog in an alley after being mugged or something like that. But it was like, what it was was basically it was like, you know, I'm, I'm in, if I'm gonna do entrepreneurial work and really have a real high risk, no, you know, no salary, no job really. You're, you're unemployed in a way.

Hmm. This is the best time to do it. Like I don't have a wife and kids, I don't have anybody else depending upon me. I came outta college. Okay, [00:09:00] I'm paying off my loans. This is the best time. So that, that kind of like, if I was gonna do this, I'm gonna do this.

Dave Dougherty: There's for anybody who's considering starting your own.

Or your own freelance thing or just your own thing at all? There's a wonderful video from a guy who started a design agency and it's called F You Pay Me and it. It cuts through, if you don't mind a little swearing. It cuts through to, you know, all the insecurities of most people who like, Hey, I'm really good at this job, but like, could you maybe pay me?

'cause you promised that you'd pay me. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's totally the wrong way of going about it. Like I have a contract that said you would pay me, pay me. I'm not going to, you know, change the scope of work. I'm not gonna do anything else. 'cause this is what's in [00:10:00] the contract. You want something else?

Sign a new contract. It's that simple. I highly recommend that video and adopting a little bit of that attitude when it comes to invoicing for your time.

Ruthi Corcoran: I think, Dave, this, this segues really nice into one of the first questions I have for you guys, which is, you know, mm-hmm.

Dave's Freelancing Fundamentals

Ruthi Corcoran: Talk to me about the fundamentals of free freelance.

Like, if you are gonna be successful in this space, what do you need from the get go? Or what do you need to keep in mind as sort of a, the basics of going the freelance route?

Dave Dougherty: So there's, from my mind, there's what you, there's what you wanna be paid, and then there's what the market will allow you to be paid.

And there's, then the third element of that is what your personal brand will allow you to be paid. And this was something that even in the musician world, I saw this happen all the time where it was like, Hey, I need a drummer. I need a [00:11:00] bass player. The gig pays X, and then that person comes back with, no, I want.

$200 for three hours or whatever, you know, whatever the, the gig is, and they price themselves outta the gig. So then they have no money and nothing to do. And because they think, you know, okay, I have all this experience, I can go, I can, you know, charge all of this stuff. So you still need to, you need to find that pricing piece.

That's, that's correct. But I mean, now with so much information, I. With, you know, HubSpot and, you know, the, the lancer and all the, all the, all the things. You can find a reasonable range of what agencies are charging, what you should charge as a freelancer, and then make sure that fits within, you know, what you're trying to make each month.

'cause. Then you know that, okay, I can get by with this one [00:12:00] client, which is really dangerous. I wouldn't recommend that. Or you could, you know, get two or three and know that that's enough for what you need. But you know, it's, it's feast or famine too, right? You always need to be on new business. You always need to be developing your next, your next gig, and you're only as good as your last big gig that you, you did.

So, yeah. Alex does that, let me, does that sit with you? I mean, you're kind of wrinkling your brow. Yeah. For anybody that's not watching video.

Legal and Financial Basics for Freelancers

Alex Pokorny: No, it was let me hit the, the bare basics from like an accounting, legal standpoint. Yeah. And then as well as kind of like getting into what you're saying about like.

What do you, what do you currently do that people pay, pay you for? Right. And whether or not there's like a, a freelance contract version of that. And then like, what can you do, which is a little bit broader, but let me hit like real quick. So from, for myself, so state of Minnesota, long story short, basically what you wanna do is [00:13:00] one, have decent amount of savings.

Try to figure out exactly what your personal finances look like in terms of costs. Dave, put it exactly about like, you know, what you need to make per month. Trying to figure that out and try to at least figure out some sort of like savings plan, because honestly, on day one, you will not have any money.

There's no money coming in. You're not owed a paycheck on day one, so you don't have a paycheck until someone starts to pay you, which means. If you can start this on the side, you know, extra hours, side projects, side hustle kind of thing. Try to build that up until it turns into. Enough for you to, you know, live off of?

From my perspective, I was living very, very cheaply. So my cost were very, very low. Had a roommate, cheap apartment. Worked out pretty well for that. But for state of Minnesota, so creating an LLC or limited liability corporation is extremely easy. You go to State of Minnesota's, literally a website, and you can do the whole thing online.

It's very simple.

Dave Dougherty: Generally good life advice. Lawyers and accountants are friends. They're not scary [00:14:00] people. They're friends.

Alex Pokorny: Yeah. And there's a lot of pro bono kind of free work too. So local libraries sometimes have pro bono hours with lawyers accountants, they're usually trying to drum up business and that sort of thing, so they, you know, offer some free time with that.

But it allows you to get some basic questions. If you have like, absolutely no idea. It's nice to talk to somebody who has, you know, a professional opinion, an idea how to do things. Mm-hmm. Picking a name. Doesn't really matter because that's your LLC. It's just a what you're gonna basically be putting maybe on an invoice.

But really, if you ever wanna change that, which I did, you can do something called A DBA or doing business ads, and that's as easy as finding a place online that will post an ad literally in a newspaper somewhere and send you the clicking back. There are literally. Newspapers that are just that because they're filling a law that basically requires that you have to have this thing posted.

Ruthi Corcoran: Can we just pause just for a moment? I love talking to you guys because the amount of information that you have shared just in the last two minutes from an accountant and a [00:15:00] lawyer at a library to this weird niche purpose for newspapers. I don't get that anywhere else, so appreciate it. Keep going.

Alex Pokorny: It's how to do on the cheap. Yeah, I realized that the, the local big newspapers, they charge an insane amount for one of these things. But you don't actually need to you need just aa newspaper and they literally just give you a little envelope with a little like clipping that says like, that's enough.

Which you then can send a PDF version of it to the state and say, Hey, I proved that. I have now officially announced that I'm gonna change my name or change my company's name, and that allows you basically to use multiple names and really again what you put on your invoice. This can be completely different.

Just don't use your personal name and keep things separate. So that means a different bank account. That does mean if you have purchases and all the rest, try to have it all underneath that because if you ever get sued your LLC is the thing that will go bankrupt instead of you because then your LLC was the one who did the.

The problem, they were the, the person in the lawsuit that did the [00:16:00] thing. So their assets get sued. So you wanna keep those assets away from your assets. So save your assets by doing that. The other thing I like, as you kind of pull this together. Yeah, accountant is definitely your friend. The other thing would be insurance.

I was doing SEO work. So I found online some rather cheap insurance because let's say I work for target.com and I script their website. What they lose in a minute or an hour is a lot. And they do sue their contractors if you messed up. So I had one or $2 million worth of insurance on me for e-commerce SEO work and cost me 150 bucks a year.

I. Like hunt around. There are companies out there that basically allow you to have like business insurance and that kind of thing. Again you wanna keep your assets away, but same time it's, you can certainly get sued and,

Dave Dougherty: yeah, pretty bad. I was just gonna bring up insurance, so I'm glad you did too, because I know some I know some guitar [00:17:00] teachers and, and music lesson teachers that teach out of their houses.

Oh, but they don't have the insurance for, you know, the lesson space in their basement. Oh, dude. So then I'm like, man, if you, if anybody slips on the ice on the way into your house, like you're liable. Yeah. You're liable for that. Like, you know, there's a reason. There's a reason there are these industries, you know, to protect yourself from people, especially in the US where they're just gonna sue the crap outta you for any reason.

Yeah. You know, if you're doing business anywhere else in the world, good on you. You, you don't have to be so worried about, you know, punitive things, but like. You know, cover yourself. Yeah. Yes. It's

Ruthi Corcoran: amazing. Okay, so if I am not in fact daunted by everything you guys just said about having insurance to cover me, about setting up an LLC about just sort of getting the sort of [00:18:00] basics,

Dave Dougherty: honestly, that's just like the first week.

Ruthi Corcoran: That's like table stakes. Yeah.

Launching Your Freelance Business

Ruthi Corcoran: What am I doing to launch this thing? What do I need to think about establishing a new freelance business?

Alex Pokorny: Yeah. Honestly, also, everything that I ran through you can do in two hours. Mm-hmm.

Dave Dougherty: Like if you were, especially with chat

Ruthi Corcoran: GBT.

Dave Dougherty: Yeah. Well, unless you read your own contracts, which I highly recommend, you should.

Alex Pokorny: Yeah. But I mean like finding all these things online, honestly, a lot of these services are very easy to find. And I was gonna suggest also a quick shout out. It's. Reduced the number of personnel, but small business administration is fantastic. The state of Minnesota, like their state department.

Mm-hmm. It's wonderful. The people there ask 'em any stupid question. They're real used to it. I mean, honestly, you can ask them like, what does it take to start a business in Minnesota? They have a webpage that goes through all of that stuff too. But I mean, if you wanna talk to somebody, totally talk to them.

Local city councils and government as well is also really helpful for basically getting businesses to grow. And start new businesses and all that, that kinda stuff is in their best interest to get more tax revenue, you know? Mm-hmm. So there, there's a [00:19:00] ton of resources also out there. Who help small businesses and entrepreneurs because there's of course, a million laws and a million things.

But it's really nice to talk to other people. And the other thing that I would heavily push is find some friends who own small businesses or people that just seem friendly, who you're like, Hey, can I grab coffee with you and ask you a ton of questions about how you started your coffee shop?

Because I buy coffee here or something like

Dave Dougherty: mm-hmm.

Alex Pokorny: I know some family members, I grab breakfast and lunch with them a bunch of times because. I didn't know what I was doing, and

Dave Dougherty: it's great to talk

Alex Pokorny: to somebody. Well, but

Dave Dougherty: that's the secret, Alex. Nobody does, right? That's nobody does. That's the whole thing with this.

I thought CEOs were so smart, and then you have a meeting with them and you're like, huh? Because yeah, nobody knows, which is why there's the whole consulting industry, because that's literally just about holding your hand, saying it's okay. Yeah, you can spend the money, it's okay. Write that step and everything

Alex Pokorny: will be fine.

[00:20:00] But Ruth, to your point, launching launching literally means getting paid and launch ain't launch until you get paid. Throwing out on the day, this could be 60 to 90 days at least after, I mean, depending on what you're trying to like, kick off, like throwing something on LinkedIn and saying like, oh, I now do this.

Okay. Have you been paid for it? Because when you get paid, that's really when your business is a business before that, it's a concept. And I push that heavily because it is so easy to get locked in the idea of like, oh, I gotta get my my logo right. No, you don't. My first invoice, honestly, Microsoft Word has invoice templates.

And I used one of those and it worked great. Mm-hmm. Like, do you need a logo? You don't. Do you need anything other than the basics for legal standpoint? No. You don't. You don't need anything like that. All you need is someone who's willing to pay you for something. Mm-hmm. And that's launch. That's real launch.

If you wanna throw out a website, that's cool, but you don't necessarily need one. If you wanna have business cards, that's cool, but you don't [00:21:00] need them. They make great bookmarks. Yeah, I got a couple right now. I gave my kids them. I was like, here, pretend money, because I know they're pointless. But so many of those things that are pushed to small business owners of like, you have to have a million business cards or whatever, custom envelopes or some kind of crap.

You don't, you don't need any of those things. So keep it simple and just try to get paid. And that means meeting people and talking to people and trying to figure out where these people are gonna be and how you're gonna meet them. So that you can build up this business idea. And that's really where I would focus on is honestly just spending time trying to find the people who are gonna pay you.

Challenges and Realities of Freelancing

Dave Dougherty: Well, I think too, okay, the setup, the legal, the accountants, it's interesting to me in, in my journey through doing freelance stuff and, and you know, the sort of full on. Agency enterprise side of things is, you know, every, just understand that everybody [00:22:00] has their own things that make 'em nervous, right? Like, I'm gonna, this is totally an example.

Alex might be totally caught up in establishing the business, right? I want to get all the legal stuff right, all the accounting stuff, right? Whereas I know a bunch of other people that are just like, eh, we'll start something 'cause, and then we'll figure it out. You know, or oh my God, sales. I can't do sales.

Sales is not as hard as most people think it is. If you can get somebody talking about what they enjoy doing or aspects of their job, that could be a problem, and you can find out more about that. That is how you start the conversations that then lead to, you know what, I actually might know somebody who might be able to help you with that.

If you're interested, gimme a call. Right? Like, it's not that hard of a thing. Where it does become [00:23:00] hard is if you get really pushy, like those telemarketer calls that we we talked about in the last episode where it's about what the business wants, not about what the consumer wants. Right.

Ruthi Corcoran: And I gotta imagine with freelance, you have to be even all the more focused on what a potential paying customer wants.

Mm-hmm. Than say the business does because you don't have that sort of large institution to ride on you. If you're not meeting what a customer needs, you're not getting paid. Is that true?

Alex Pokorny: Yeah. That would be one of my main points is basically is pivot. Like when I started freelancing, I had no intention of ever having a client.

I was totally gonna go an affiliate marketing route. I eventually started working down that route and pulling numbers and realizing that it was a joke. Like there was no way I was ever gonna make money off of it. Yeah, unless you argue your own contracts, the public contracts are awful. Like you just won't make a living doing it.

So it was, it's an industry that pitches to its own and sells it to its own. So [00:24:00] I got caught up in the pitch and thought that it was a thing. No. Yeah, so I had to pivot real quick because I quit my job with this intention of doing this whole business thing that totally flubbed within like the first month and a half.

So pivot. So what it was was some people I knew who had asked me to do some work on the side. So. I went back to them and said like, Hey, do you have anything else? Or do you know anybody else who kind of does this stuff? So I started talking to others. In the end, I think I had like four or five different business models running at one time.

Basically, it was, I had direct clients who I had met and who knew me. I. And they were paying me directly. I was I had a business partner and he was like, he called himself like a virtual agency kind of thing, but really he just, it was like a kind of general contractor of sorts. So companies, he would sell a ton to all these little companies.

They would go to him and then he'd be like, oh, okay. I need a guy who can do I. As X, Y, Z, and then he would find people who to do that and he would pull me in. Anytime you had SEO paid search, take a little bit off the top. Right? Exactly. He always had his gut and I got paid via him. [00:25:00] Right. And he was awful about paying me.

But that's a whole, again, to Dave's point of make sure you pay. Exactly. I did subcontract work under a number of different agencies. There's a bunch of 'em. The twin cities literally just went through the paperwork for. So many contracts that are still apparently active. But there's a bunch of agencies and it was the same thing of basically they need always, occasionally flex, extra help.

And SEO O there's not many people in that field, so it's difficult to find someone who can, you know, show up especially to a client meeting, impress them. And then like talk about, you know, your, your expertise to them and then, you know, they get the sale that way and then you start getting, you know, paid on from, from that.

If you're really great project manager, agency owner, it's great. If you have a terrible one, it's terrible. It's, you're working with a bunch of people.

Dave Dougherty: I know. A bunch track. I was gonna say, how did you track, I know a bunch of people that make their whole living being. Yeah, basically a contract worker for another agency, they use the agency as their new [00:26:00] business.

Yeah. Development kind of thing. And then they come in, but since they're always in on the agency meetings, the client's always like, well, okay, so you work here. And they're like, well, actually, I had that awkward

Alex Pokorny: conversation once where it was like, oh, so where's your desk? And the agency was trying to pass me off as one of their employees 'cause they were trying to look bigger.

It's super awkward.

Ruthi Corcoran: How did you track and plan all this? I mean, that's, that alone is.

Alex Pokorny: A job in

Ruthi Corcoran: and of itself.

Alex Pokorny: And then on the side I was hiring developers to basically build a software product that I thought would be able to launch other stuff. Basically taking a giant database of keyword research data and then trying to figure out like where the patterns are to try to figure out what problems people have been looking at and not finding anything online.

And then the other one I was working with a guy. I knew from college who lives in Vegas doing affiliate work. And we were doing side projects and trying to come up with like an automated way to do SEO, which totally didn't work. So, I mean, those ones kind of just failed out, fizzled out, right?

All of this stuff, basically to the data's point [00:27:00] is natural. I mean, basically you talk to one person, you keep basically being in, in that group and keep asking like, Hey, by the way, and keep talking to all the contacts that you have that are in that area, who might be having full-time businesses themselves and saying like, Hey, if you ever need help with this, let me know.

You ever need help with this, let me know. And basically kind of like. Kind of pushing that all the way around. One big thing that I would ever say, if, if you're gonna do that kind of work, get a retainer. And that was one thing that I failed to do and really messed up my finances. Basically I was working project 'cause it's really easy when someone says, Hey, I got this kind of thing I got this problem with how much would that cost me?

And you save like 300 bucks. And then you say, great. And you send the contract, you do the work, and then after that you have no, no money, no job. Mm-hmm. Because you were spending all your time working that job and you weren't selling the next one, and now you have nothing. And that was my finances.

There was a rollercoaster. I mean, when I was had a contract with somebody, I was 40 hours a week or more doing their thing. And if I could, since it was [00:28:00] project based, if I could do it really fast, my hourly was great if I did it really slow or there was a ton of handholding and a ton of com, you know, stuff like that.

It was, it was rough. GE used to do this thing of times three, and I highly suggest it. Basically think what's realistic and then multiply by three. Mm-hmm. That is what it always ended up being because of all the handholding, emails, extra meetings, extra calls, extra, extra, extra. All the invoice didn't work, send it again.

Like, it's insane how many hours you end up blowing up on a project. But if you a container,

Dave Dougherty: do it. That's the other thing too, where. A lot of people jump into freelancing or starting their own thing because they're excited about doing a particular type of work, right? Yeah. I'm gonna spend all of my time designing amazing logos and like, no, actually a third of your time will be design works.

Like half of your time will be getting the next project [00:29:00] to pay next month's rent, and then. The, all the other time that's remaining is your admin. Yep. So that's why it's like, build it as fast as you can in order to hand off the pieces you absolutely hate so that you can, I mean, that's why like starting something with somebody else, I'm always kind of a fan of.

'cause then where I have gaps, somebody else can come in and, and help or, you know, take that and then. Both of us can be happy. But yeah, it's, it's a whole lot. And, you know, we, in the, in our meeting notes for this show, we have like a whole list of other ones that, that we can easily talk about, but I think this episode could go on for like six hours.

And unfortunately we do have meetings that we have to go into. So.

Next Steps

Dave Dougherty: I'm gonna leave it on a cliffhanger right now. So in kind of in summary, when you're thinking about [00:30:00] freelancing or you're ready to take the plunge, you're gonna do it right, get. All of your admin ducks in a row. Have your accountant, have your lawyer, have your contracts.

You know, there's a lot of templates and a lot of resources online to help you out with that. Spend the time doing that before you quit your job, you know, and, and have to do that unpaid right. And don't let the administrative stuff scare you to the point of not chasing after what you're interested in.

It will figure itself out. You can do it, you know, if you've met some of the schmucks I have, you can do it.

And another. Really easy thing to do is to send us show ideas, like we said in the first one. So like, subscribe, share, send this to anybody who you think could use the [00:31:00] advice, ask any questions in response to this, and I think we'll chunk out. The notes that we had for the next couple of episodes.

So thank you for making it this far. Thank you for sticking around Alex and Ruthie for 50 shows. I've had a lot of fun. See you in the next episode of Enterprising Minds.