Stitches & Picks S1:Ep 2 - Our Projects & Processes - Casting Knits and Beginning Guitar Online
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Episode 2: Our Projects & Processes - Casting Knits and Beginning Guitar Online Video Transcript
[This transcript has been lightly edited to ensure readability]
Dave Dougherty:
All right. We are absolutely living the transitional entrepreneur lifestyle today. So if we're not as on point as we normally would be, that's why. But it's all good.
We're all good.
Kristen Juve:
That’s why I'm wearing a hat.
Dave Dougherty:
Yes. Lovely Minnesota.
Kristen Juve:
Hat day.
Dave Dougherty:
Mine at, what, minus 20 windshield? feels like?
Kristen Juve:
Is it?
Dave Dougherty:
No, it's not.
Kristen Juve:
It’s warmer today than it was yesterday. We love to talk about the weather.
Dave Dougherty:
It's definitely below freezing. Yeah. So thank you to anybody who has listened to the first episode. I know that that last one was more of a general get to know us to kind of get the feel of what it is we're trying to do with this.
And then in this one, we're going to talk a little bit more specific into:
What it is we've been doing into our actual businesses that we're working on
Where we are in the journey.
When did we start?
How does that translate to you as you do your own thing?
How can you try to estimate, from our experience, what can you expect while you get on it?
Kristen Juve:
Yeah. I'm hoping, too, that even though we have very different industries, that a lot of people will be able to take tidbits or nuggets of information and apply it to their own small businesses because there are a lot of things that translate across industries.
Dave Dougherty:
Definitely. Yeah. Everybody's going to face the same problems in their own way ultimately. I mean that's part of the game. Right?
Kristen Juve:
Totally.
Dave Dougherty:
Now, I will say, for me…that I was saying to Kristen before we jumped on here that getting the videos out for the Beginning Guitar Online, right, Thursday's launch day. It's Thursday when we're recording this. So up late until about midnight hitting publish on that, and then for the anchor job, I had to be up at 7 a.m. for meetings until about noon.
Kristen Juve:
The type of day I'm having, I heard you say anchor job and I was like, "Like, a newscaster?" And I freaking know what you do! Like, that's the type of day I'm having.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah, so it's good. But this is...we want to be real because this is all part of the journey. Like we said in the first episode, a lot of times you hear about where people are now, and they’re like, "Oh yeah. That sucked. I worked a normal job, but then, you know, I just wrote blogs at night, and now look at me."
Kristen Juve:
Right? Or you, like, hear about people, like, "Overnight I became a millionaire. Overnight I started my business." And it's like, that's bul****t. That didn't happen.
Dave Dougherty:
Right. Yeah. There were 10 years of fantasizing, working, and figuring it out.
Kristen Juve:
Blood, sweat, and tears.
What’s Going on with Casting Knits?
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess, you know, as we record this, you know, we complain about the weather, but it is January. So it is one of the coldest ones for Minnesota. So that making it the best time to reflect on, you know, what's happened in the previous year. So, Kristen, why don't you start us off with what progress you made. Even though I know you like to downplay the progress you make.
So yeah, castingknits.com, where are you at?
Kristen Juve:
Yeah. So I feel like…Okay, if I just, like, would do a gut check and I'm not actually thinking about what I actually did, I'm like, "Oh, I didn't do that much." But on top of, like, the pandemic and having a kid and, like, all of these other things of real life, I've actually done a decent amount of things.
Granted, like, I've unraveled a lot of it, like, literally unraveled a lot of it. So Casting Knits is my website. If you go to it right now, you will basically see, like, a Shopify, like, coming soon or whatever, the little pages because I just transferred over to Shopify. So I did sign up for Shopify. I got that all signed up and all sorted.
Kristen’s “Coming Soon” page for Casting Knits on the Shopify platform.
Which was a huge thing for me. It was the blocker in a lot of ways. I had a WordPress website. I was joking with Dave, "I'm a serial website creator and blog creator. Not a publisher. Not a writer. Not a maintainer. A creator. And then I let them sit."
I like to come up with the themes and do all of the background stuff, and then I just never...I hit publish and that just kind of sits there. So my goal is to move forward with that. And I am thinking that this transition to Shopify not only is pushing me to do it because I'm paying more for it.
Dave Dougherty:
That helps!
Kristen Juve:
I've got bigger stakes in the game, right? But also, like, taking myself more seriously in some ways. I know knitting to a lot of people sounds, like, stupid and it's like a hobby. Just a "simple little hobby" or whatever. But it is an entire industry that a ton of people participate in. And it's fascinating, and it brings a lot of joy, and it brings a lot of self-accomplishment, and I really just enjoy it in general.
So, like, over this past year, one of the things that I did is I sat down and I started brainstorming about how I was going to have revenue streams. And I literally have, like, 26, I think it's 26 Post-it notes of how I could potentially create revenue with knitting. And I know it sounds like you're, like, knitting. Like, no, there's no way that you'd have 26 potential revenue streams.
Yes. Yes. I could if I wanted to.
I don't want to. That would not serve me at all. So I focus in on two or three things that support each other in a lot of ways, the blog being one of them, and then the other one's selling patterns.
So if you're unfamiliar with the knitting world, which I know Dave is because Dave was literally like, "Why don't you just weave?"
And I was like, "I'm not walking out with the gigantic loom. I'm going to take my little needles and walk around with those." Okay. Plus, also, they're a weapon.
Dave Dougherty:
Yes. I have very little exposure to that other than I know people who do it.
Kristen Juve:
Yeah. But, like, self-defense. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying.
So yeah, focusing on the blog and the pattern writing. If you're unfamiliar with the knitting community, there are free patterns, but if you also, like, really want...the idea is that if you want a well-written pattern that's easy to follow, that you can totally, like, make the garment that you see. Like, you get the exact product, but in the color that you want and you get to be the one to make it, you buy a pattern.
And people actually, like, self-publish them. And there are forums and, like, websites all built around this, and people have their own websites, and there's much to do about it. So I know that, in particular, as a revenue stream is not the moneymaker. It is one of the moneymakers. And I think a lot of people who are in that industry think it's the moneymaker and they continuously pump out patterns, and it's an exhausting process.
And I've actually written my first pattern, but I've literally already unraveled it all. I literally, like, I wrote a pattern for a sweater. I knitted the sweater up to here. Realized it wasn't what I wanted, and I literally unraveled it all. This is one of the balls of yarn.
Relating Songwriting to Knitting?
Dave Dougherty:
So, okay. I'm going to try to relate that last sentence to something that I do. For me, with songwriting, there are songs that I know I will never release.
Kristen Juve:
Yes.
Dave Dougherty:
But I have gotten to a point where they are almost done or, you know, 90% of the way there. So I just finish them to force myself to finish them, even though they're going to sit on a hard drive, like, you know, forever ever and a day. A lot of them are joke songs, you know?
Kristen Juve: I mean, that brings joy and entertainment. So I feel like there's a lot of value in that even if they just sit.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. Songwriting, it's a lot like photography in a sense, where it's a capture of a particular moment. So, you know, if you were to write something 12 years ago, you're not going to play it the same way or feel the same way about it later on.
Kristen Juve:
Totally. You want…you brought up joking. I created that sweater custom for my dog. My dog clearly does not need a sweater. I laughed the entire time, and the pure joy I got out of it was actually what led me to want to write patterns in the first place.
Dave Dougherty:
And your Insta handle is? Since you showed it on the...
Kristen Juve:
CastingKnits. That's the place where I'm at on social for now.
Unraveling at 90% complete, Prototyping, and Product Development Process
Dave Dougherty:
So do you think the unraveling at 90% is more to do with your process, or, like, what makes you unravel it rather than just finish it?
Kristen Juve:
That’s a great question. I don't want to put out a product that I'm not feeling like is what I envisioned. And if it was something where I was like, "Okay, I'm, like, 90% happy with it." This was, like, a major flaw in the pattern, and it wasn't...you would easily make it, and it was going to be a sweater, it would fit, it would look nice, but it wasn't the right fit, like, of what I wanted for that body type.
And I shouldn't say body type. For this sample that I'm making. And I wanted that to translate across all sizes that people would make of this sweater. And I knew that, like, keeping it, it's called "ease," keeping it at the ease that I had, I would not... The next phase you go into, like, test knitting.
So you have a bunch of people test it out and make it in their own sizes, and tell you what's wrong with the pattern, and, like, see how they like it, and give you a ton of feedback, right? It's like user testing. It's literally that. And I didn't want to have people, like, take pictures of themselves in it and me be, like, "That ease is just not right. It's just not right."
I just couldn't live with that. And I'd rather take the extra time to knit up my sample and write the pattern exactly how I envisioned it than... And this is actually practice, like, in knitting. I have ignored mistakes and continued to knit. And now, I understand the threshold that I have for, like, what mistakes I'm willing to live with and which ones I'm not.
Dave Dougherty:
I mean, it's an important thing in terms of product development.
Kristen Juve:
Yeah.
Dave Dougherty:
Because obviously, you want your company to stand for something specific. There’s a threshold of quality, right?
Kristen Juve:
Totally.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. And that's all the stuff that you don't hear about, right? Nobody ever talks about how many times they went through before they actually got the product right.
Kristen Juve:
Yes.
Dave Dougherty:
I mean, as…I think of that one famous quote, my mind always goes to that "Austin Powers" line about...
Kristen Juve:
Of course, it does.
Dave Dougherty:
Yes. It's just so good. Just so good.
Kristen Juve:
Which one?
Dave Dougherty:
What?
Kristen Juve:
Which Austin Powers line?
Dave Dougherty:
Where Dr. Evil was like, "You know, Preparations A through G were a failure, but on the whole, I think Preparation H feels good."
Kristen Juve:
Okay. That's on-brand for you.
Dave Dougherty:
It’s just stupid and hilarious. And, you know, not to make it grandiose, but I mean, that is the process for product development.
Kristen Juve:
It is. And I think that's a piece of it. Like, I think this is exactly what you're getting at. When I, like, made the decision to unravel it, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to do it."
And it's been sitting probably for weeks now. I mean, the holidays didn't help. And I just need to now get over the mental, like, "Okay, yeah, I ripped it all apart, and now I need to build it back up again."
And I have all of this foundation laid out. It's not like I'm starting from scratch. I have, like...the pattern's written. I just need to, like, make sure that the numbers match up. If you're also unfamiliar with knitting, it's a lot of math. A lot, a lot of math, but Excel is amazing. So that's a whole 'nother thing.
Yeah. So it's not like I'm starting from Square 1, and I just the mental hurdles that you have to get over when you have to either restart over or take something apart and put it back together again is probably one of the hardest parts, I think, about doing your own side thing.
Process Discovery for Launching Your Site, Having Fun, and Knowing Your Limits
Dave Dougherty:
Well, so okay, I mean, you've covered a bunch of ground. I want to pull back a little bit, right? So you talked about product development, right? You're going for your first pattern. You've identified a couple of potential revenue streams even though those have to be, you know, reduced in number and focused, right, in order for you to be successful.
Kristen Juve:
Right.
Dave Dougherty:
But then the buying the domain, setting up the social stuff, that's all of that, like, front-of-house, front end, you know, brand experience kind of stuff. So do you find yourself just jumping back and forth between those constantly or do you...?
Kristen Juve:
Oh, God.
Dave Dougherty:
Are you setting yourself up where it's the, okay, Monday is my, you know, front-of-house day, doing Instagram and then, you know?
Kristen Juve:
I’m not that organized.
Dave Dougherty:
Not that organized? Okay.
Kristen Juve:
Okay. So, and I shouldn't say that I'm not that organized. If anybody, like, knows me personally, they know that I'm a total agile junkie.
I love scrum, kanban boards, that, like, anytime I can... I literally, like, scrum board my wedding plans many years ago, many years ago. Like, I think it might be four now.
That's how much I think that this stuff works.
Dave Dougherty:
It’s more than a few.
Kristen Juve:
What?
Dave Dougherty:
More than a few.
Kristen Juve:
More than one. More than one.
So I have a running kanban board, and I have it, like, pretty well optimized. It goes stale every once in a while, but I have everything blocked out, like, this is marketing, this is business, this is pattern design. And so that when I'm doing the work, I have a very clear understanding of what I'm putting effort behind so that I don't get it confused.
And I lately, in all honesty, and I kind of feel a little shameful admitting this, I have been putting my energy behind just fun knitting. And then saying it out loud, I don't feel as bad, but, like, right before I said it, I'm like, "Oh my God…”
I haven't been working on stuff as much. And I just...
Dave Dougherty:
Because you’re investing in what you actually like rather than...
Kristen Juve:
What?
Dave Dougherty:
Because you're investing in something you like rather than just doing the thing.
Kristen Juve:
Yeah. I’m, like, resting and taking time for myself. And I'm trying to balance that with starting this up. And, in the past, I put so much pressure on myself mentally to get stuff started, that I feel guilty and really horrible about doing stuff for myself.
So then I just sit in this mode of, like, I feel bad, but I'm not accomplishing anything. And now, I'm like, well, I'm not accomplishing anything, but I don't feel bad. So then I feel better when I do actually start to work on stuff.
And it's this weird level of permission that I've been giving myself of, like, you do have time to rest. There is no timeline. The timeline that you're putting forth is only on you, and yes, it's important, but, like, give it the proper weight that it deserves. Don't make it your end-all-be-all and kill yourself doing it on top of it.
I have a steady day job that I love, but I also love this other thing. So, like, the balance between it all. And it's not a balance, it's shifting constantly.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. Yeah.
I know that was one of the things that caught me up because it's been 9, almost 10 months since I launched Beginning Guitar Online. And luckily, if you go to the site, go to any of the social channels, you'll see my friend, Chris.
He's, you know, shooting a lot of the videos and doing that. He's a full-time guitar teacher, you know, violin and acoustic guitar and all that stuff. So he's been doing a lot of the video recording, but then I'm doing all the back-of-the-house stuff: post-production, social media, etc.
Kristen Juve:
So do you feel like that's easier in a sense, that, like, you have two people on it, so you don't have to, like, context switch, or do you feel like it puts different levels of pressure on you? Or maybe I'm leading the witness.
Dave Dougherty:
It puts me into that project manager bit, you know because I'm also trying to shoot videos for myself. But then because I know the full process of everything. You know, okay, if I do this, then I can take the photos and it'll be, you know, the social things.
Or, you know, like, right now, based on this, I'm sitting right in the middle of the camera. I wouldn't do that with the BGO stuff because I need that extra space [on the side of the frame]. You know, so it's, like, learning those things while doing all the editing.
And I wanted to learn video editing a bit more. I mean, I'm not saying I'm any good at it, but I at least wanted to learn, and I will give myself credit for the improvement in doing it.
Kristen Juve:
I mean that's what we're here to do, right?
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. But the thing I wanted to bring up about it was, you know, I had a plan for the launch. I ignored it, like, right at the 11th hour, which then...
Kristen Juve:
Was this the launch package that you ignored, or was it something else?
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. Well, so I have a video idea for this channel that I think I'm going to tease it up and do a deep dive in on the app with the launch and what I've learned and all of that. Still thinking about it, you know, thinking that whole thing through.
But yeah, essentially, I had the whole launch thing. It was all planned ahead of time, and it was like, "All right, I'm going to launch with five, and then I'll be able to roll 'em out, you know, one week for, you know, however long, and I'll be good. I'll be ahead of schedule. All the social stuff is scheduled, and I'll just be able to shoot video and continually create, whatever."
Then, you know, I was hovering over the button, and I knew I shouldn't, but I did anyway, and I went ahead and just launched a whole bunch of videos at once instead of recording them out. And then...
Kristen Juve:
I mean, it's a strategy.
Dave Dougherty:
It is. You know, I mean, it happened and...
Kristen Juve:
Can you call it a strategy if you just gut check it and just do it right away, or is it a strategy if you plan it out like...? Semantics.
Dave Dougherty:
Well, I had a strategy, and then I thought, "Meh." Which...
Kristen Juve:
Live and learn.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. Because I mean, the real thing about it and the real learning was that it took me about six months to crawl out of that, right? Because to your point...
Kristen Juve:
Interesting.
Dave Dougherty:
...you have the family stuff that you got to do. You have your normal day job you got to do. And then you got to do all this other stuff on the back end. And for me, I get three, four hours a night to work on this stuff. And that's if I'm...basically from 8 p.m. to midnight or 9 p.m. until midnight if I'm doing bedtime.
Kristen Juve:
I need more sleep than that.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. So then, you know, I'm up late. I'm doing it. I'm pushing past the brain fog. And I know my limits creatively, so I can tell when my brain's so fried that I'm going to start making mistakes.
Kristen Juve:
I'm so glad you brought that up because that is a legit thing. And I think, like, people don't realize, or maybe I didn't realize for the longest time, how much that impacts your actual work. Like, why keep working after that point where you're just going to have to redo it anyway?
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. And there'll be times where, I mean, even with the day job, right, having my wife be at home, you know, working from home last two years, she'll come around and be like, "What are you doing? You're supposed to be working." And I was like...you know, I'll be, like, sketching something, like, just something to clear my mind.
Kristen Juve:
You have to take a break. Yeah.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. Grabbing one of the guitars, taking 15 minutes just to, you know, dink around. And it's just like, I know I have to do that in order to clear my mind, in order, and be present when I need to be.
Kristen Juve:
I’m the same way.
Dave Dougherty:
And my argument with her, too, was, if you think about what your actual day was at work, you know, you say you work 8:00 to 5:00, but really, you roll into the parking lot at, like, 8:00. It takes you 10-20 minutes, depending on the size of your parking lot, to get in. Then you sit down and then you have a bunch of drive-bys of people saying hi or, you know, "Do you have this project status?”
"No."
"Great. Give it to me by the end of the day."
Or then inevitably, you have the person that's like, "Oh, hey, how's your coffee? Let's go get coffee." So then you walk and you have a hallway talk, you know, getting your coffee, and then you go to your first meeting. You know, and so it's and then, and then, and then…
Kristen Juve:
Yeah, and part of that, like, not only is that good for, like, our brains, but it is good for, like, companies, too, to some degree, that's like that social structure. And right now in COVID, we're not getting that.
And, like, I'm actually really glad you brought this up because I was actually talking to my therapist about this and she's like, "Back before the pandemic, you'd have stimuli coming into your space whenever that you'd have no control over.
And your brain was, like, able to take that in. And now, your brain's not getting stimulated in that same way. So, like, everything that you're choosing to do in your home, that is not a stimulus that your brain's...like, you're not getting your needs met in that way, like, if the stimulus isn't there.
Spouses, family, and schedules for your side project
Kristen Juve:
You brought up an interesting aspect, though, that I'd love to ask you more about. Spouses and negotiating or discussing, whatever you want to call it, the side gig thing and the time spent on it. So, like, have you encountered difficulties there? Because, sorry, I have.
Dave Dougherty:
Yes.
And that's about as much as I'll put on the public record.
Kristen Juve:
That’s fair. That's fair. You're married to a lawyer. So I get it.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah, no, inevitably, she'll listen to this and be like, “David!" Even though that's really more of an impression of my mom.
Kristen Juve:
I was going to say that doesn't sound like her.
Dave Dougherty:
No. So that's where setting up the schedule is really important, where, you know, in the mornings, it's my responsibility to do this and this in order to get my son out the door for daycare and then, you know, work, I make lunches, work, and then I go pick him up.
So, you know, and in that sense, I have very definitive start stops throughout, which is nice. You know, it's not just, like, the endless whatever. But then it's really important for me that when I'm doing something that I am there 100%. So, I'm not the person that will be sitting and texting during a meeting. I still think that that's extremely rude and you shouldn't do it. And so I refuse to do that.
And, you know, so when my son's in the house, I am present with him. And even if I've seen, you know, this particular Pokemon episode, like, seven times, I will watch it an eighth time because he wants me to, right?
Kristen Juve:
That’s my philosophy on parenting, too, being super present.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. And, you know, can it be annoying? Absolutely.
Kristen Juve:
Yeah. And draining.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah.
Kristen Juve:
Mind-numbing.
Dave Dougherty:
Right. But it is important. So then the time for me to record and to do the post-production stuff is at night when he is, you know, in bed.
Kristen Juve:
So it sounds like you guys have a routine established and, like, a schedule to aid in any communication and, like, establish boundaries because of that schedule, too, to enable you to work on your stuff.
Dave Dougherty:
Our family is highly disciplined in that sense, right? I know some of the other parents that we've, you know, hung out with or talked about were like, "Oh, what time do you let your kid go to sleep?" And I'm like, "9:30 every night, no matter what, he's asleep."
Right?
Kristen Juve:
Yeah, mine's in bed by 7 p.m. every night.
Dave Dougherty:
You know, obviously, there are times where he stays up later and it becomes a thing, but...
Kristen Juve:
Totally.
Dave Dougherty:
You know, it's just being part of a human, but we have a very, like, it is such and such a time. It is time that we do this, which is what you do before, you know, this, that, and the other, and then you go to bed. So you have this, like, wind-down time.
And I think...I mean, that works for us, but then seeing a lot of the more, like, you know, loosey-goosey things, I don't know that I could live that way, or it's just like, "Oh, the kid tells me when he is tired."
No, no.
Kristen Juve:
I mean, if it doesn't bug other people, it's not a problem for them, then it's not a problem for you because you don't have to deal with it.
Like, I'm a true firm believer of, like, I know you and I differ on this, if it's your family's rules and it doesn't affect me, I don't care. You do you. Like, I don't care what time your kid goes to bed. But, like, for our family, we do have certain boundaries that we adhere to, too. We have, like, similar schedules.
Like, we know who's doing the pickup. We know who's doing the drop-off, who's days it's what to do what, who is making dinner on what days. And then if we deviate from that schedule, we have a conversation about it.
Dave Dougherty:
So I think that's interesting because everybody's situation is different, right?
Kristen Juve:
Totally.
Dave Dougherty:
Obviously, you know, I can armchair expert as much as I want, but...
Kristen Juve:
Same.
Dave Dougherty:
…I know what works for my family, and that's it. And I don't really care what anybody else thinks about it. It works for us. But then I cook. I'm responsible for all the meals. So there's just no arguing that.
Kristen Juve:
I mean, if you know that that's established, though, then that's, like, that's where that's at.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. So, I mean, it's fine. It's just, you know, to your point, it's a balance. And one of the more interesting things, actually, when you talk about finding things out throughout the process, I've discovered that for whatever reason, Wednesday evenings, out of all the evenings throughout the week, is when I am the most fried.
Kristen Juve:
That makes sense, though, with your launch date being Thursdays.
Dave Dougherty:
So yeah. I don't know what it is, though, because most of the time I'm, like, ahead of schedule because I know I have to hit this particular point in order to do this.
Kristen Juve:
You’re still making my point. “I’m ahead of schedule. I’m burnt out by Wednesdays.” Yeah.
Dave Dougherty:
Okay. Yeah. I did talk myself into that, didn't I?
Kristen Juve:
I mean, you can fight me on it.
Dave Dougherty:
Well, yeah. Let’s.
Kristen Juve:
All right.
Dave Dougherty:
No, but it is just interesting because I have noticed that, like, even when I don't have to go and schedule something, right? Like, I'm not doing the last minute, you know, cuts and promotions or whatever, like, things have been scheduled for a while and I have a free Wednesday or whatever, I will be just toast. So that is the only day when I feel that way where I will be like, "All right, I'm just going to not do anything."
Kristen Juve:
That’s also a thing, though, too. Like, you're subconsciously giving yourself permission to, like, not work on something, so you're like... That's a thing. Psychologically, that's a thing. I don't know what the word for it, but it is.
Dave Dougherty:
I’ll take your word for it.
Kristen Juve:
I mean, you should because armchair expert here.
Dave Dougherty:
Right. Right. That's what I've experienced. And so that I've baked that into my process.
Kristen Juve:
That’s smart. So you're actually looking at not just, like, how you plan things, but actually how they've gone and then accommodating for that.
To me, that's genius. Like, that's definitely...I'm not at that stage yet. I'm, like, I didn't feel like doing something. I'll do it tomorrow. The dog's pooping everywhere, the kid's pooping everywhere, like, and then tomorrow doesn't happen.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. You're definitely in a different stage.
Kristen Juve:
I mean, my kid's a little younger, so. I mean, she did just pee on the rug this morning. So I shouldn't say that out loud. Obviously, that was my fault because she wasn't wearing a diaper.
Dave Dougherty:
You did kind of ask for it then. Yeah, that's...
Kristen Juve:
She’s been so good. We've been doing, like...whatever. We have a new routine. It's been working really well up until today. Obviously, mom's responsibility, not kid's fault. Kid's fault, mom's responsibility. Anyways, so, no, on the partner thing, it was really interesting.
My husband, when I first told him about Casting Knits, he was like, "Oh, so another blog that you're going to start and just not do." And I was like, kwaa. But he made a valid point and now I can joke about it. At the time, I was like, "No."
And we went through this ebb and flow of, like, it's not that he wasn't supportive because he is, like, one of the most supportive people I've ever met. But he was just like, "Wait, what, what, what, why?"
And I was like, "I just want to." And then, because he felt bad about, like, not fully, like, buying in and supporting me from the get-go, he did a 180 and was like, "Let's get you a new laptop. Let's get you a new camera. Let's get you this, this, this, this, this."
Like, all these things. And, like, he basically wanted to drop, like, more than a couple of grand on it. I was like, "No, no, no." And it freaked me out totally. So we have kind of come to terms where I just don't talk about it.
Dave Dougherty:
Do you find that difficult? Like, do you find yourself wanting to?
Kristen Juve:
No. I mean, I talk to him about, like, pattern stuff or, like, knitting stuff because he talks to me about his hobby but...
Dave Dougherty:
What is his hobby?
Kristen Juve:
What?
Dave Dougherty:
What is his hobby?
Kristen Juve:
Hockey.
Dave Dougherty:
Oh, okay.
Kristen Juve:
So, hockey gear constantly is in our...like, we're talking about hockey gear in our house and his game that he played or the practice that he's on. So I'm like, I don't feel bad about telling him about, like, this knit that I just totally screwed up on or, like, "Look at me," and like whatever.
Defining Failure for Yourself and How That Matters
Kristen Juve:
So it's I talk to him about bits and pieces. I don't talk to him about the business side about it, at least right now. Because frankly, like, I don't need another reminder that I might be a failure.
So I failed a lot. I've had a photography business. I've had a bunch of other stuff that I'd call a failure in some sense, but the learnings that I've gotten from them, I, like, want to implement and actually prove to myself that they were not in vain.
Dave Dougherty:
Okay. So it's interesting because, you know, we've recorded the first episode a couple of times, right, because we were learning how to set up the "9 to Side" thing.
Kristen Juve:
Totally.
Dave Dougherty:
Trying to get the legs on it. And you've talked on how this was a failure, this was a failure, and I would challenge your definition of a failure.
Kristen Juve:
No, you're right.
Dave Dougherty:
But it's also, I guess, my perspective on things was just, well, it just wasn't time yet.
Kristen Juve:
Yes.
Dave Dougherty:
It’s not that it was a failure, it just was the wrong time. Because, like, I know, for me, if I knew a lot of the stuff I know now about the music stuff, I would've been much more successful back in the day. I was not psychologically there to even have been able to execute on, you know, that knowledge if I had had it, right?
Kristen Juve:
This is such a good point.
Dave Dougherty:
And so it was all necessary to get to where I am.
Kristen Juve:
Yes.
Dave Dougherty:
And I don't, you know, discount that, but it just wasn't time.
Kristen Juve:
No, there's so much to that, too. Like, not just... So, like, during those same timeframes, we both graduated from undergrad in the height of the recession. I think we've already, like, touched on this. The mental effects of being in a recession and being told to go to college and get a degree and you'll have a job and, like, having good internships and then suddenly nothing is a complete mind f**k.
On top of interpersonal relationships, having to move back home, like, all of these things, and then being young. I was a kid. Like, this was over 10 years ago. Like, I was a kid.
Like, I didn't have the confidence for anything or the wherewithal to give myself the space to be like, "Hey, right now, you don't need to push yourself too hard. You don't need to have these unrealistic expectations."
I think back and I know I could have been one of those, like, really ridiculously, like, rich photography bloggers because I could have started talking about everything that I was doing and talked about my failures, and I could have made a ton of money off that because I've seen photographers do that. And I didn't do it.
My path still weirdly led me to a lot of things that I found interesting, like social media. And so, to your point, like, I just needed the time to kind of get some of this. Like, I needed a healthy relationship. I needed to not live in my parents' basement. I needed to pay off a bunch of my debt.
I needed to do a bunch of these things to get to a new spot of feeling confident in myself and figuring out who I was even more than I had before to, like, even have the basis to do something and still be healthy, do a side business and still be healthy.
Things We Found Helpful Along the Way…So Far
Dave Dougherty:
So I know, you know, one of the things that we talked about was making sure that we talked about, like, things that we found helpful along the way.
Kristen Juve:
Yes.
Dave Dougherty:
So as you went through that, was there anything in particular that you found helpful to reframe things or...?
Kristen Juve:
God, yeah.
Dave Dougherty:
You know, because I know we've talked about podcasts. I mean, that's one of the reasons why we're starting this. You know, watching YouTube videos again, one of the reasons we're starting this, you know, sharing the same mediums that were helpful, but...
Kristen Juve:
Yeah, I think a lot of things that I'll probably say around...God, it's so intertwined, though, mental health, your mindset, your perspective on things because it's your side business, because it's your business, it's your job, it's your jam. It is completely and utterly 100% intertwined.
So we cannot talk about your side thing without talking about mental health, or your mindset, or any of those pieces. And this is where, like, a lot of my stuff gets kind of granola-ey, but I do truly believe in it, like journaling.
If you're not going to take the time to do therapy or, like, talk about your feelings to someone else. Journaling, getting a different perspective, getting something out, and processing what has happened to you, can do wonders.
And we see this in business. When you have a report out or a readout or you recap your year or your quarter, you can then go, "Look at the good work that we did. Like, I don't have to feel bad and sh**ty about the three things I did because they were epic." Like, this is not new, but it's hard to realize, I think, that you have to do it for yourself because it is part of self-care and that is a part of the business, too.
Kristen Juve:
You know, and it's interesting you say that because in December, beginning of January, I put together the, you know, infographics around BGO stats. And so I'll share those out as I do the other video or whatever, but, you know, you saw them.
And to your point, at the beginning of this thing, it really was sitting down and going, "Oh, man, I have done a lot.” Because I was just so in the grind of, okay, post-production here, video editing here, you know, social media there, responding to comments, trying to figure out, "Okay, am I doing, you know, YouTube search algorithms correctly? Like, how can I optimize this? Do that? Is there a better process?"
All those things. Poking my head up after nine months it's like, "Oh, this explains why I've been tired." Because of, yeah, it was something like:
56 videos created and uploaded to YouTube
40 web pages and blogs
Each video is at least four social media posts, if not more (at least 224 social posts created for the videos).
I curated about 1,500 articles to share in the newsletter
18 newsletters were sent out throughout the year
So yeah...
Kristen Juve:
Just a sheer number. Not even looking at, like, obviously quality because you're gaining traction, but, like, just the sheer number of the work that you've put in. Taking stock in that, pulling your head up from the hard work that you're doing, I think that's one of the lessons that I think I learned from early on. So, yeah.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. And I would encourage anybody else to schedule those things in because, you know, putting together the information on those infographics, I mean that was two, three days' worth of work that I could have been doing on something else, but it was important to sit and do that and that became a priority.
Also, just because I do have so many different constituents that have helped me throughout the year that I wanted to at least give them something to say, "Look, this is what you've been supporting. Thank you for the help along the way. Here's what we've done. And it's only in nine months, but it's at least something. This is what's up."
Kristen Juve:
I think this is very much entwined, too, with taking time to rest/develop strategy. So, like...and this is what I think I'm really good at, and I'm a little less good sometimes about action. And so I need to, like, get in those modes where I, like, do action a little bit more.
But letting your brain... So if you take all the things that you've worked on, you've looked at it not only in terms of which, like, work you're going to talk about, you're going to go in a deep dive for BGO, I'm going to do summations, too, from Casting Knit and stuff. Holding me accountable for doing work, yeah, to really understand, like, what that looks like.
But then you're sitting there looking and it's informed decisions now that you can make. So you can sit there and actually take time and breathe and relax and do a hobby or enjoy time with your kid and go... And suddenly, because those cogs in your brain or from your machine, your machine or your brain, because I can't speak because I don't have any cogs, can actually rest and then process some of this stuff.
So like you start going, "Okay, how can I get the same amount of traction with the people that are viewing, I'm using you as an example, my videos, but actually produce fewer videos?"
Is there a way to do that? You know, like, there's...
And then, like, identify problems. I'm exhausted by Wednesday and I no longer want to feel that way because it doesn't sound sustainable. How do I figure that out? And you have numbers and actual tangible things to go off of. So, like, it's all a part of it. I think it's probably the piece that people don't value enough. They just value hard work. The grind, the constant grind.
Dave Dougherty:
Yeah. I think that's the thing to talk about, too, is, you know, for anybody who hasn't actually launched the thing, right, but they have the idea that they want...
Kristen Juve:
Sheepish. No, I’m just kidding. It’s fair. I'm fine. It's good.
Dave Dougherty:
Taking actionable steps to sit down and map it out, right? I mean, you did that. I think you said it was something like 26 Post-it notes map or whatever, right? I mean, that is a tangible thing.
Kristen Juve:
I have many whiteboards, too, of, like, various, like, strategies and processes, too, so I just need to start putting.
Dave Dougherty:
Right. And everybody has their own process. So if you're unfamiliar with your creative process that's going to be a whole spree in and of itself, ...right?
Kristen Juve:
Yes.
Dave Dougherty:
I know what works for me for different types of media. So, like, when I'm writing, that is late at night, down in the kitchen, with a cup of tea and a specific music playlist.
Kristen Juve:
Oh, I like the visual.
Dave Dougherty:
And it's just free writing because I know I have to get it out. And then editing is later because editing is the work. Writing is fun. Editing is work.
Kristen Juve:
Yeah. That was me with photography. Photography is fun. Editing, that's the work.
Dave Dougherty:
Right. But yeah, same with the videos, like, actually taking the time and outlining what you want to say first. That is a skill I'm currently developing, you know?
Kristen Juve:
Same.
Dave Dougherty:
But also just, you know, getting in front of the camera and doing it and then seeing the feedback and being like, "Okay, this needs to change. That needs to change. I need better lighting. I need to stop saying um so much." You know, sit up. You know, all those kinds of things, right?
It all just takes practice. It all just takes practice.
Kristen Juve:
It does. And actually, like, we could probably go into a whole 'nother episode of, like, true confessions. I'm very trigger shy of, like, actually putting stuff out there. And I need to probably address that. Sometime in the future. We'll get there.
Closing Remarks
Dave Dougherty:
Right. I think we'll leave it there as a cliffhanger.
Kristen Juve:
Such a good one.
Dave Dougherty:
To be addressed at a later episode. Yes.
Kristen Juve:
You’ll have to come back for more.
Dave Dougherty:
Great. Thank you, everybody, for hanging out. If you're on YouTube...
Kristen Juve:
Thanks for being here.
Dave Dougherty:
…like and subscribe, share, comment, and leave any questions in the comments below. If you're in the Podcast Player, please write and review. It helps us with the algorithms and, you know, being found by other people. We'll see you in the next episode. Appreciate it.
Kristen Juve: See you later.
